Is immobilization excessive?

Dog829 · 07-07-2011, 10:53 PM,

Here I am referring to German and Soviet WWII era vehicles. Primarily, I have been playing Red Victory both vs the AI and pbem. The high number of of non combat, mechanical vehicle failures I have experienced playing either side has led me to wonder whether it's excessive. I haven't recorded exact numbers but I estimate 15 -25% is about right with the 20-25% number happening more often.
In a game I started earlier on turn 9 of 30 and playing as the axis in August 1943 I have lost three tracked vehicles or 10% already in normal conditions while moving on secondary roads.
What's normal for WWII vehicles?

From the users manual on Immobilization:
For a given movement from one hex to another with a movement cost of C and the Move Immobile Factor parameter data value F, the probability of the movement causing the Vehicle to become Immobile is C * F.

Where can I find the data which constitute F? It seems it can't just be the vehicle reliability data value found in the weapon data dialog since it happens so often to vehicles with reliability ratings of "A" that something else must be factored in besides random chance. Terrain? terrain conditions? Time of year? Year? Status?

Thanks

Archijerej · (This post was last modified: 07-08-2011, 12:32 AM by Archijerej.)

I had the same problem with Africa at War. My vehicles were getting immobilized in dozens, regardless of the scenario and terrain. I've run some tests and there were cases where ALL of my vehicles were immobilized within 2-3 turns. No such experiences with other titles, including RV. I'm currently playing a RV scenario as Soviets, and I have some 20 T-34. 15 turns into the game and none of my vehicles have become immobilized (the terrain is mostly grass). I think this may be some kind of bug. Maybe re-installation would help, but I haven't tried it with my A@W.

tallin · 07-08-2011, 12:41 AM,

F is in movement costs in the parameter data. The immobilization varies with scenario. For example, one scenario could be 1/5000 while another is 1/4000.

Dog829 · 07-08-2011, 04:53 AM,

(07-08-2011, 12:41 AM)tallin Wrote: F is in movement costs in the parameter data. The immobilization varies with scenario. For example, one scenario could be 1/5000 while another is 1/4000.

I was giving C the value of movement cost from current hex location to the adjacent hex. In my case, it's trail (I called it secondary earlier), under normal conditions so this value is five correct? But really this value is F also? Alright, now I know less than before I asked the question then. How is it possible to be this far off?

TheBigRedOne · 07-08-2011, 05:28 AM,

The equation, to me, seems to be set up in such a way as to cause more immobilizations as you move away from main roads. As the movement costs go up, so do the odd of your vehicle being stopped. I'd imagine that it also tries to simulate things like mechanical failures and the like, which can be pretty tricky to model in a sophisticated way. The tougher the terrain the more likely hood of blowing a track...etc.

Given that I have no feel for how often a WWII era tank breaks down or requires repair, it would be tough to say if it is unrealistic or not. That said, I do tend to keep my main vehicles on the roads most of the time if you can.

Landser34 · 07-10-2011, 01:06 PM,

Right now playing a scenario Crisis on the Mius I have lost 8 tanks to immobilization and none of them due to enemy fire come on I can see maybe one or two but 8 its ridiculous.These are T-34's they ran better than any Panzer as for going cross country there tracks were wider they were designed for being driven on open terrain

wokajimbo · 07-10-2011, 06:43 PM,

@Archijerej, I had exactly the same problem when I first tried Africa at War. I now have no problems at all running it on PW v 1.03.

Gasbag · 07-11-2011, 03:08 AM,

(07-10-2011, 01:06 PM)Landser34 Wrote: Right now playing a scenario Crisis on the Mius I have lost 8 tanks to immobilization and none of them due to enemy fire come on I can see maybe one or two but 8 its ridiculous.These are T-34's they ran better than any Panzer as for going cross country there tracks were wider they were designed for being driven on open terrain

The Germans did develop wider tracks as a result of the conditions encountered on the Eastern Front. These tracks were known as Ostketten. I've seen a lot of photos of them in use. I doubt that they're modeled in the game(s) but I thought that I throw out this little bit of information...

Dog829 · 07-11-2011, 06:53 PM,

(07-10-2011, 01:06 PM)Landser34 Wrote: Right now playing a scenario Crisis on the Mius I have lost 8 tanks to immobilization and none of them due to enemy fire come on I can see maybe one or two but 8 its ridiculous.These are T-34's they ran better than any Panzer as for going cross country there tracks were wider they were designed for being driven on open terrain

Is this an odd coincidence? This IS the exact scenario that started me asking the question to myself. Then I said something to CK2 who I am still playing this scenario against in pbem. I'm the Russian player in this one and the number seems close to what I experienced. I think mine was a little higher. I'd give you a number but many have since been destroyed. I still have four or five left in the field.
But then later I was playing Vorskla Valley as German vs A/I and lost three tracked vehicles while moving on trails within the first 5 turns that prompted it. No combat, nothing. Final count was eight vehicles. One was a truck, the rest tracked.

Big Red One commented earlier that he didn't have any knowledge about the mechanical reliability of WW2 vehicles. I don't either, I doubt such data exists.
What I do know is I have played RV quite a number of times. Some pbem, most vs A/I and this seems really excessive to me when compared to my overall experience with this game.