Delayed Disruption; Night Disruption

Marquo · 07-11-2011, 12:17 AM,

What does delayed disruption add to the game? Is it to make things harder and less predictable for the attacker? It seems like it can really change the dynamics of just about every scenario; has anyone run any parallel tests to see how much different things can be? Attacking an undisrupted unit in a pillbox or bunker can be a castrating event...

Marquo

Volcano Man · (This post was last modified: 07-11-2011, 01:31 AM by Volcano Man.)

Yes, at Tillercon users suggested that there should be a mode of play where disruption is not immediately known (you have to guess or use overwhelming firepower and hope). So, John made an optional rule for that. Being that it is optional, you do not have to use it if you do not want to. ;) Personally, I like the rule if you happen to play against the AI or solitaire, but it is a good rule in a long PzC campaign too where the attacking side might be extremely powerful (which is the case for most titles -- e.g. N44, K43, F40, M44, St43, M41, etc.).

**Ricky B** · 07-11-2011, 01:41 AM,

I have enjoyed it quite a bit in the 2-3 games I have played with it. Much more realistic, you have to judge whether the defender seems disrupted or not. I have a tough time remembering when it is on, as I will pummel a unit and figure it has to be disrupted, only to remember it won't show after dumping extra ordinance on the unit. I don't see it messing with the balance significantly, just adds a bit of realism to the games - it does probably shift the balance to the more experienced players who can estimate the chances of disruption more reliably.

Rick

Marquo · 07-11-2011, 07:01 AM,

(07-11-2011, 01:41 AM)Ricky B Wrote: I have enjoyed it quite a bit in the 2-3 games I have played with it. Much more realistic, you have to judge whether the defender seems disrupted or not. I have a tough time remembering when it is on, as I will pummel a unit and figure it has to be disrupted, only to remember it won't show after dumping extra ordinance on the unit. I don't see it messing with the balance significantly, just adds a bit of realism to the games - it does probably shift the balance to the more experienced players who can estimate the chances of disruption more reliably.

Rick

I think it is very good addition. IMHO, however, it has the potential to significantly change the dynamics of games, and here is why:

In most OOBs/PDTs, failure to disrupt a unit will lead to an unsuccessful assault, with a potential to hurt the attacker significantly. Most assaults are timed to when the defender disrupts. With the delay, there is a large chance that the attacker may not assault and risk huge casualties. So the timetable of many games will be thrown off from conventional, the attacker will undoubtedly suffer more causualties and there will be more unsuccessful assaults.

Not judging this one way or the other, it is what it is. I will like this rule as the defender, and be lukewarm as the attacker. I like Ed's "wet thumb in the air" analysis.

Marquo

**Mr Grumpy** · 07-11-2011, 07:35 AM,

I think there is a general view that the defender in PzC is at a disadvantage due to the "I go, You go" system allowing an attacker to concentrate firepower in the form of direct fire, arty or air strikes onto certain units until the whole stack is disrupted and only then assaulting, often the defender does not get a chance to disrupt the attacker as fire in his opponents turn is controlled by the AI and may not get a chance to bring up fresh reserves to support a defensive position if his units are both disrupted and assaulted in his opponents turn.

So i agree 100% with Rick, this rule will play into the hands of the more experienced players who can deduce correctly that units are likely to be disrupted by factors like the poor results of defensive fire etc...if this rule slows down an attack and gives the defender more time to react i think that is a good thing, but the rule (like QFM) must be used wisely for certain games rather than in all scenarios.

All in all it is an excellent addition to the PzC series...... Big Grin

Glenn Saunders · 07-11-2011, 09:01 AM,

(07-11-2011, 12:17 AM)Marquo Wrote: What does delayed disruption add to the game?

eel and when you have applied enough force

What you have to consider is with the game mechanics, leading to black and white Unit OK vs Unit disrupted, and then the game previously annoucung the exact moment when the disruption occcurs annoucing to the attacker the exact time to launch the assult, this new idea was to make the game even more about gut feel and when you have applied enough force. Or - you can wait til the next turn after to see if your attacks have caused disruption. Of course this gives the defender time to recover of put reserves into the line. Both of these are desired effects we thought.

Glenn

Witblitz · 07-13-2011, 06:51 PM,

Might be a little off-topic but:

Seeing we want realism replicated as close as one can, I have wondered how does one know in real life if a unit is disrupted? Basically if a unit is disrupted, what factors contribute to being seen as disrupted? Suppression, angles of attack on it, state of morale/ammo/food/command? Or visual indicators like people running and screaming?

thx

Al · 07-13-2011, 11:56 PM,

(07-13-2011, 06:51 PM)Witblitz Wrote: Might be a little off-topic but:

Seeing we want realism replicated as close as one can, I have wondered how does one know in real life if a unit is disrupted? Basically if a unit is disrupted, what factors contribute to being seen as disrupted? Suppression, angles of attack on it, state of morale/ammo/food/command? Or visual indicators like people running and screaming?

One of the effects of disruption is decreased - 1/2, I believe - firing effectiveness so in real life one would notice a marked decrease in firing from the enemy.

**Mr Grumpy** · 07-14-2011, 02:53 AM,

From the PzC manual........

"A unit that is Disrupted represents a unit has been made less combat effective because it has been exposed to very heavy fire. This represents the fact that control of the formation has been reduced, thus reducing fire effect of the unit as a whole. The men are still firing but more at the target of their choice. If the unit is composed of tanks, then many of the crew commanders have "buttoned up". Disrupted units have 1/2 fire value."

Glenn Saunders · 07-14-2011, 03:30 AM,

Perhaps a bit off topic, but for anyone who has ever been involved in a minor auto accident - perhaps one with no injuries, just a good bang and some vehicle damage. It happened to me once. You get out of the car feeling rather numb, that "what happened feeling".

....for me - that is "Disruption" and over time, you recover, depending how many BF points you attained on the hit :)

But seriously - this is a great analogy if you have ever experienced it and recall the feeling.

Glenn