Engineers

[Philippe]

This is more of a reality check than anything else, but I just wanted to make sure that something that appears to be WAD really is.

If I move a mine clearing-capable engineer into a hex with mines that is also adjacent to an anti-tank ditch the engineer will be marked with an orange mine clearing tag. On the turn after he arrives the tag will turn black and there will be one less mine. One the turn after arrival if I manually turn off the mine clearing function I can damage the anti-tank ditch -- and then turn the mine clearing function back on. So on the second turn after arrival the hex will have two less mines as well as a damaged anti-tank ditch.

Clearing one level of mines and damaging an anti-tank ditch seems like a lot of activity for one turn. Not saying that I don't think it should be possible, but was this intended? I've encountered it in Kursk and can reduplicate it pretty much at will.

Just what, exactly, is the damaging of anti-tank ditches supposed to represent? Setting off charges and filling the ditch in with fascines? Or standing around shoveling dirt into the trench? If eliminating the anti-tank ditch effect is too strenuous and time-consuming, shouldn't it interfere with the ability to clear mines? Of course, if you don't allow both activities to occur simultaneously, a lot of engineering assaults will proceed much more slowly (which is why I have always assumed you could do both in one turn, if you remembered to give the orders).

[Mr Grumpy]

The ability of engineers to reduce a minefield by one level (or completely clear a level 1 minefield) in two hours (or four at night) has been discussed at length with the general consensus that this is too fast compared to a real life situation, however as Glenn often points out many of the features in PzC are abstract any you cannot take the timings too literally.

Not sure if the subject of what damaging a AT ditch represents has come up, but my view is the engineers are allowing units to cross the ditch while paying the basic terrain cost by any of the means you describe or maybe a mixture of all of them? :chin:

Any experts on crossing AT ditch's out there? ;)

[alaric99x]

Not a ditch expert here, but I can tell you that it's possible to set an engineer unit to not clear a minefield or obstacle, then fire on an enemy unit (for however little that fire may be worth) and then set the engineer back to a clearance command again. Just another example of an engineer unit carrying out multiple functions. I guess this would be considered as "gamey," but it shouldn't be allowed to happen in the game system.

[jonnymacbrown]

"The ability of engineers to reduce a minefield by one level (or completely clear a level 1 minefield) in two hours (or four at night) has been discussed at length with the general consensus that this is too fast compared to a real life situation, however as Glenn often points out many of the features in PzC are abstract any you cannot take the timings too literally."

Has anybody ever tried to lay some mines? What's the success % on that?
jonny :rolleyes:

[Lowlander]

Has anybody ever tried to lay some mines? What's the success % on that?
jonny :rolleyes:



Tried laying mines at a ford in a Korsun campaign game but as the time past by and with the enemy approaching I decided the cut and run.
From memory the engineers were on the job for a few days.

[jonnymacbrown]

"Has anybody ever tried to lay some mines? What's the success % on that?
jonny :rolleyes:

Tried laying mines at a ford in a Korsun campaign game but as the time past by and with the enemy approaching I decided the cut and run.
From memory the engineers were on the job for a few days."

I think it's like clearing rubble, well neigh impossible. jonny :smoke:

[raizer]

Ive laid mines once. Also I had Es building a bridge and set them to clear rubble as well, doing both at the same time. You can also build a bridge and patrol I think

[JDR Dragoon]

Also I had Es building a bridge and set them to clear rubble as well, doing both at the same time. You can also build a bridge and patrol I think

Yup, and entrench and build a bridge (at least during subsequent turns, since the ENG will use its full movement to begin erecting the bridge). I don´t see anything inherently wrong with this game-play wise, unless we are talking about a company sized formation. A battalion of engineers is so big, that it can easily accomplish multiple tasks. Indeed, the soviet army ENG BTN consists of specialist units, each equipped for a certain task, but all rolled into one counter.

[Nitram Draw]

"The ability of engineers to reduce a minefield by one level (or completely clear a level 1 minefield) in two hours (or four at night) has been discussed at length with the general consensus that this is too fast compared to a real life situation, however as Glenn often points out many of the features in PzC are abstract any you cannot take the timings too literally."

Has anybody ever tried to lay some mines? What's the success % on that?
jonny :rolleyes:

I've created whole minefield belts in Kursk. They just take a little time.

[alaric99x]

What does "a little time" mean in hours and/or days? I had previously gotten the idea that it took so long to lay mines that I never even bothered to try.

Also, am I to understand that the general opinion is leaning toward the idea that it's not considered "gamey" to do everything with engineers that the game mechanics allow you to do?