Market Garden Campaigns

Mike Bowen · 11-24-2011, 04:07 AM,

I have played several and it has always been a problem to me that the edge of the world impacts on this battle than any other title. I have often thought that the Germans need protected areas to retreat to as in rela life they would have pulled back regrouped and attacked this keeping the Allied units tied to their positions to protect the highway. Instead what happens is that the Allies herd the Germans to the edge and wipe them out and then move north.

I am now playing Harry who is a gent and we have agreed the south of Eindhoven (sp) the Allies can do what they want but North there is a 2 hex safe haven. This is as at turn 35 having the effect of tying the allied down and creating a more realistic scenario (IMO).

The point of this post is to ask if in the next updates protected hexes could be used to create these havens by having a 1SP unit arrive

There would perhaps need to be a VP adjustment and indeed I wonder if 1AB units should have a higher defense value as well.

Mike

PS upgrades to the Modern series would be very nice as well!

**Ricky B** · 11-24-2011, 04:25 AM,

Mike - I did exactly that quite a few years ago. There were on small reinforcing units that came on for the Germans on the west side for extended protection and tunnels through blocked hexes on the east with bunkers allowing German movement.

I will dig it out for a look.

Volcano Man · 11-24-2011, 05:49 AM,

Yes, protected areas are a good idea but (playing devil's advocate here) the other side of the coin is that you can also bottle the Germans up with protection tunnels to the degree where the Allies just have to cap the hole. It is certainly tricky to say the least.

I had come to accept that in reality the Allies could have / did push the Germans back to what is the map edge and the Germans retreated out of the battle area but the trouble is that the Allied units that would push off the map edges to persue / contain them are still present and can move on. I think one important thing is that the Germans probably need supply sources in every hex on the map edges, or at least in the areas where they get pushed up to the map edges frequently, to make it easier for them to not be concerned too much with isolation from the few supply sources.

Mike Bowen · 11-25-2011, 03:45 AM,

Also the problem with the idea of accepting that the Germans have retreated is that in the game they have not and so they lose all the VP for those units as well as releasing the attacking allied units

2 hex protection zones with perhaps more supply sources works ok I think.

Certainly in my current game I can pull back reorganise and be a force in being the Allies have to leave a fair number of troops or risk my breaking out. I think having a 1 SP unit appear fixed every other hex and then withdraw the next turn whilst fiddly is a good answer

Mike

**Ricky B** · 11-25-2011, 05:08 AM,

(11-24-2011, 05:49 AM)Volcano Man Wrote: Yes, protected areas are a good idea but (playing devil's advocate here) the other side of the coin is that you can also bottle the Germans up with protection tunnels to the degree where the Allies just have to cap the hole. It is certainly tricky to say the least.

I had come to accept that in reality the Allies could have / did push the Germans back to what is the map edge and the Germans retreated out of the battle area but the trouble is that the Allied units that would push off the map edges to persue / contain them are still present and can move on. I think one important thing is that the Germans probably need supply sources in every hex on the map edges, or at least in the areas where they get pushed up to the map edges frequently, to make it easier for them to not be concerned too much with isolation from the few supply sources.

The Germans did retreat to the map edges, but kept launching fresh probes/attackes against the flanks that tied down Allied units - which is missing here - once they leave they are gone. That was primarily the 107th Pz Brigade, so they have the tunnels through the east edge prohibited hexes - they can retreat, rest and strike again, as long as they aren't cut off, which can be an issue, probably.

On the tunnels, there are 7 exits and they are sometimes 2 hexes wide, so a single unit can't block each one of them - and even with a single unit it would probably be easy for the Germans to fight their way out.

Anyway, I played with this 8 years ago when I first worked on it, here are the files for a try if someone wants to look at them.

Happy Thanksgiving.
Rick

Mike Bowen · 11-25-2011, 07:39 PM,

Thanks I will give them a go when Harry has finished beating me.

Rev Rico · 11-25-2011, 11:29 PM,

Mike,
My alternate CG scenario uses protection zones for the Germans. They have a plethora of small 10 man units that enter throughout the game. In my test games it worked quite well as a deterrent I believe it's available on the blitz. If not, I can send it to you.

Bob