Bug in optional rules?

[Narwan]

Have just started a Alt campaign gam, France '40 1x.

Optional rules have been selected as those advised for Alt scenario's so the 'Indirect fire and Airstrikes by the map' is off and 'Limited air recon' is on.

Yet my opponent is able to use recon aircraft to spot units moving deep inland and then uses his Luftewaffe to smash them to bits. An I mean really smash them to bits, some units are below 50% in one turn.
According to the settings of the optional rules that should be impossible:

"Limited Air Recon – when this rule is selected, then enemy units spotted using air recon cannot be targeted for air or artillery attacks unless the enemy unit is also seen by a friendly ground unit that is eligible to spot for the attack (or by using a "By Map" attack, see above rule)."


Am I missing something? Because this way it's going to be very, very easy for the german player.

NB Also posted at the VM forum.

Narwan

[JDR Dragoon]

Is it possible that he is using Air Recon to reveal "?" markers detected by SIGINT or Counterbattery routines? In this case, he can indeed strike them (and any other unit in that hex) using airstrikes and artillery. If the occupants of the hex are fully revealed by the air recon, he even gets to choose the unit hit.

[Narwan]

Is it possible that he is using Air Recon to reveal "?" markers detected by SIGINT or Counterbattery routines? In this case, he can indeed strike them (and any other unit in that hex) using airstrikes and artillery. If the occupants of the hex are fully revealed by the air recon, he even gets to choose the unit hit.

There's no sigint or counterbattery here. He used air recon first, then airstrikes. Even so, what you state is directly opposite to what the optional rules describe should /could happen. So are you stating that the manual is not correct?

Narwan

[Ricky B]

The? units spotted by air recon can't normally be hit by air soI discount this. Narean pls email me the turn and password if you would and I will take a look. Or pls send to HPS.

Rick

[Bushido]

Gents,

I think I can give an answer for this. He use rec. air for spotting ? Thereafter he hit them with

the Carpet bombers. The Axis have alot of them in the Alt_campaign.

So for me this looks like normal ;)

[jonnymacbrown]

Gents,

I think I can give an answer for this. He use rec. air for spotting ? Thereafter he hit them with

the Carpet bombers. The Axis have alot of them in the Alt_campaign.

So for me this looks like normal ;)

That's it baby! Those dang carpet bombers!:smoke:

[Dog Soldier]

FWIW, It appears the copious amount of Carpet Bombers the Axis has in the _Alt F40 games is to offset the mobility the Allies have from the rail network. IIRC, that was one of the justifications. Also, VM felt that the level bombers could not precisely strike a single unit in a stack, even though the Germans did use the level bombers in the game that way in F40 with very low level attacks, not high level attacks. CB units should miss a column on a road and deliver their payloads into the county side on either side o a road now an then. If every Axis CB strike is hitting a target like Davey Crocket... then you have other problems.

The good news is the Allied air force should have the same capability, though more limited with less squadrons. Try to determine when the Axis is mounting up the artillery to continue the advance. If you catch some batteries on the move (in the _alt versions this is easier since the higher terrain movement costs cause artillery to keep near the roads) then your own CBs can deliver some payback. Forget going after armor in travel mode, unless it is stacked with a juicier target you can not pass up. Columns of infantry, motorized or foot, are good secondary targets if your Allied air recon does not find any artillery to chew on.

Just think in terms of a full day and choose the turn, sector etc for your Allied air recon carefully. Sometimes you get lucky. Failures will teach you the German player's habits until you are successful.

BTW, do not use the most obvious routes for your released troops or the reinforcements. If your opponent has just too good of intel from those fifth columnists (a copy of the game <GRIN>) and hits your guys the next Axis turn after release or entry on board, then ask if he will allow a turn or two after a unit releases or enters to "get lost" making a little harder for the Axis to pulverize Allied reinforcements.
Certain transit hubs in the road and rail network should never have an Allied unit near them at the end of your turn. Just a fact of life in the _alt version of F40.

Dog Soldier

[Ricky B]

I had German carpetbombers in a Minsk campaign battle that were able to concentrate on bottlenecks. I don't think there was any German air recon, but I knew the Soviets were pushing columns of troops in T mode through a swamp and engineer bridge so I sent many strikes there. They got some good kills when the bombs didn't fall in the swamps, although not enough to swing the battle.

Rick

[jonnymacbrown]

"BTW, do not use the most obvious routes for your released troops or the reinforcements. If your opponent has just too good of intel from those fifth columnists (a copy of the game <GRIN>) and hits your guys the next Axis turn after release or entry on board, then ask if he will allow a turn or two after a unit releases or enters to "get lost" making a little harder for the Axis to pulverize Allied reinforcements."

This is cheating isn't it? :eek1:

[Dog Soldier]

Maybe not when most of the German AF in the _alt version are carpet bombers who ignore the Limited Air Recon optional rule which is part of the game mechanics.

Maybe it is an oversight in the _alt OOB design. Campaign games are by nature a hornet's nest of variables for the designer to consider.

Dog Soldier