Thoughts for a Top Gun Tournament

[Herr Straße Laufer]

Dug up an archived post:
_____________________________________________
Jim Puff Memorial Top Gun Tournament Update

Due to our loss of Jim Puff some adjustments have been made.
Skyrider has graciously offered to withdraw from the tournament. He deserves much honor for this action. :tu:
Two matches have been changed to reflect the recent events;

Big Dawg [Allies] will face Don Fox [Axis].
Goodspeed [Allies] will face Hawk Kriegsman [Axis].

E-mail has been sent to all affected parties.

I will not presume to say that Jim Puff would have wanted to have the tournament continue. I just know that he would.
I do know he loved to play the Campaign Series and he enjoyed his membership in the club, along with the many friends he had here.

We all can honor him by playing on and naming our tournament after him so that future players will know him the way we all do.

He is our Top Gun.

Ed
Herr Straße Läufer
Assistant CS Ladder Custodian
______________________________________________

Re: Top Gun -First Scenario

KKR writes:

***Gevatter and I will be playing all optional rules ON. Is it necessary and/or desirable to standardise this across the tourney.***

Actually, the players can hammer out individual ROE's prior to starting their games.
If both players like 'armor facing off' that is up to them?
If they both play it that way then the match is even, player to player, for them? There will be a win, loss, or draw result across an even playing field between the two players.
It is round robin until the final two matches of the elimination round.

Unless you want a concensus of all the players in the tourney I have no problems with players working out individual ROE's amongst themselves?

If anyone would like it we can make a ruling on it? You all are the "best of the best" and we wanted you to be comfortable in not generating rules that you might not all agree to.
Most past rigid tourney rules were in place due to the number of relatively inexperienced players mixed with the more experienced ones.

If the other eighteen players would like to agree to the above KKR request, please let the tourneymeisters know?

____________________________________________
Re: Top Gun -First Scenario

Nah, round robin style is quite simple. The players who win play the winners of their matches in each round. The losers play the losers.
The pairings for the second match are based on the win/loss [ladder not tourney] so that the highest win/loss winners are matched against the highest win/loss winners and the highest win/loss losers are versus the highest win/loss losers.
Then the next winners face the winners and losers face the losers into the second round.

At the end of match number four the seeding to the final round will be the top four tourney players, in tourney points, face each other in final elimination. Ties will be broken by ladder highest win/loss.
Two of the four top players after the fifth match move on to the last match.

The winner of the sixth match is crowned the Top Gun.

The four matches of the first two rounds establish point totals. The last two matches of the third round eliminate players until a winner is crowned.
_____________________________________________________
Section I
Tournament Parameters

* The tournament is set up in three rounds of two scenarios each. The first two rounds will be in "round robin style". Players will be paired off based on their win/loss ratios. Winners of the first round play the winners of the comparable win/loss ratio from the first round. Losers play the losers in highest to lowest win/loss pairings.

* In the first two rounds points would be awarded for each game as follows;
Major win - 5 points
Minor win - 4 points
Draw - 3 points
Minor loss - 2 points
Major loss - 1 point

Note: In addition to the above points, the players will report the games as normal played games. So there will be winners and losers as well as points to gain for future placement.

* Players are expected to complete two to three turns per week. The selected scenarios have between ten and twenty turns each. Slow play and 'disappearances' will not be tolerated. If you have a problem during the tournament make sure that you contact the tourney meisters and your opponent. If a workable solution cannot be found to resolve the problem then your opponent will receive a victory of the highest order. [In the unlikely case of this happening the highest seeded loser will be selected to balance the tourney as it moves into the next round (unless it is the fourth match/game two of the second round.]

* The four players with the highest point total advance to the final round. They will be seeded by their point totals. Ties, in total points, will be broken by their win/loss percentage [ladder not tourney].

* The final round will be an 'elimination' round. In the final round the four top players will be paired by their tourney point totals, as listed above, highest to lowest. Winners move on to the final scenario. The winner of the final match will be crowned "Top Gun" and receive a badge and one hundred Ladder points.
_________________________________________
Section II
ROE's

* No units can be removed from the map.
* Non-combat transport units cannot be used to surround, block movement, block line of sight, or perform "recon" duties.
* ROE's not covered by the parameters and in the ROE rules section should be discussed with your opponent prior to play.
* Combat Ht ROE's should be discussed by the players prior to starting a game.
* Infractions, during the tournament, will be decided upon by the tourney meisters. Their word will be final.
* Tourney Meisters are Raven, T Mould, and Herr Straße Läufer.
_____________________________________________________________
You may wish to contact your opponents to dicuss any ROE's that are not covered in the above ROE's?


_____________________________________________________________

My thoughts on a new tourney.

2011 Ladder

Have:
10 or more reported games
500+ win/loss %
2k+ ELO
Played at least one game in the last 3 months.

Qualified players:

1) Jim von Krieg 1.00 2140
2) Theova .875 2168
3) FScout .850 2084
4) XLVIII Pz. Korp .809 2130
5) Tiger 88 .804 2216
6) Schwerpunkt75 .800 2119
7) Mike Abberton .791 2109
8) Oberst .777 2168
9) Big Dawg .736 2094
10) Larry Reese .735 2097
11) H .714 2057
12) Charlie-66 .702 2076
13) Ed .700 2105
14) Otto von Blotto .697 2088
15) Peiper .683 2162
16) Relayer .680 2096
17) RD_DeathDealer .677 2107
18) Rupert .656 2050
19) PawelM .625 2125
20) Fubar1 .625 2001

21) Hawk Kriegsman .622 2062
22) Tank Killer .616 2065
23) Deutscher Landser .615 2004
24) ernst .583 2031
25) Herr Straßen Läufer .575 2066
_______________________________________
Throwing out some thoughts. Anyone want to front this and host a linked sight to track the event? (There may yet be a link to Ravens old site. Not that we'd be able to do anything with it. But, it is a template for what could be done?)





HSL

[Larry Reese]

Interested. What are the criteria for scenario selection? In my opinion, this has more to do with winning than almost anything else (scenario balance I mean) when players are on a par skillwise.

What happened to the old tournament?

LR

[Ashcloud]

Dug up an archived post:
_____________________________________________
Jim Puff Memorial Top Gun Tournament Update

Due to our loss of Jim Puff some adjustments have been made.
Skyrider has graciously offered to withdraw from the tournament. He deserves much honor for this action. :tu:
Two matches have been changed to reflect the recent events;

Big Dawg [Allies] will face Don Fox [Axis].
Goodspeed [Allies] will face Hawk Kriegsman [Axis].

E-mail has been sent to all affected parties.

I will not presume to say that Jim Puff would have wanted to have the tournament continue. I just know that he would.
I do know he loved to play the Campaign Series and he enjoyed his membership in the club, along with the many friends he had here.

We all can honor him by playing on and naming our tournament after him so that future players will know him the way we all do.

He is our Top Gun.

Ed
Herr Straße Läufer
Assistant CS Ladder Custodian
______________________________________________

Re: Top Gun -First Scenario

KKR writes:

***Gevatter and I will be playing all optional rules ON. Is it necessary and/or desirable to standardise this across the tourney.***

Actually, the players can hammer out individual ROE's prior to starting their games.
If both players like 'armor facing off' that is up to them?
If they both play it that way then the match is even, player to player, for them? There will be a win, loss, or draw result across an even playing field between the two players.
It is round robin until the final two matches of the elimination round.

Unless you want a concensus of all the players in the tourney I have no problems with players working out individual ROE's amongst themselves?

If anyone would like it we can make a ruling on it? You all are the "best of the best" and we wanted you to be comfortable in not generating rules that you might not all agree to.
Most past rigid tourney rules were in place due to the number of relatively inexperienced players mixed with the more experienced ones.

If the other eighteen players would like to agree to the above KKR request, please let the tourneymeisters know?

____________________________________________
Re: Top Gun -First Scenario

Nah, round robin style is quite simple. The players who win play the winners of their matches in each round. The losers play the losers.
The pairings for the second match are based on the win/loss [ladder not tourney] so that the highest win/loss winners are matched against the highest win/loss winners and the highest win/loss losers are versus the highest win/loss losers.
Then the next winners face the winners and losers face the losers into the second round.

At the end of match number four the seeding to the final round will be the top four tourney players, in tourney points, face each other in final elimination. Ties will be broken by ladder highest win/loss.
Two of the four top players after the fifth match move on to the last match.

The winner of the sixth match is crowned the Top Gun.

The four matches of the first two rounds establish point totals. The last two matches of the third round eliminate players until a winner is crowned.
_____________________________________________________
Section I
Tournament Parameters

* The tournament is set up in three rounds of two scenarios each. The first two rounds will be in "round robin style". Players will be paired off based on their win/loss ratios. Winners of the first round play the winners of the comparable win/loss ratio from the first round. Losers play the losers in highest to lowest win/loss pairings.

* In the first two rounds points would be awarded for each game as follows;
Major win - 5 points
Minor win - 4 points
Draw - 3 points
Minor loss - 2 points
Major loss - 1 point

Note: In addition to the above points, the players will report the games as normal played games. So there will be winners and losers as well as points to gain for future placement.

* Players are expected to complete two to three turns per week. The selected scenarios have between ten and twenty turns each. Slow play and 'disappearances' will not be tolerated. If you have a problem during the tournament make sure that you contact the tourney meisters and your opponent. If a workable solution cannot be found to resolve the problem then your opponent will receive a victory of the highest order. [In the unlikely case of this happening the highest seeded loser will be selected to balance the tourney as it moves into the next round (unless it is the fourth match/game two of the second round.]

* The four players with the highest point total advance to the final round. They will be seeded by their point totals. Ties, in total points, will be broken by their win/loss percentage [ladder not tourney].

* The final round will be an 'elimination' round. In the final round the four top players will be paired by their tourney point totals, as listed above, highest to lowest. Winners move on to the final scenario. The winner of the final match will be crowned "Top Gun" and receive a badge and one hundred Ladder points.
_________________________________________
Section II
ROE's

* No units can be removed from the map.
* Non-combat transport units cannot be used to surround, block movement, block line of sight, or perform "recon" duties.
* ROE's not covered by the parameters and in the ROE rules section should be discussed with your opponent prior to play.
* Combat Ht ROE's should be discussed by the players prior to starting a game.
* Infractions, during the tournament, will be decided upon by the tourney meisters. Their word will be final.
* Tourney Meisters are Raven, T Mould, and Herr Straße Läufer.
_____________________________________________________________
You may wish to contact your opponents to dicuss any ROE's that are not covered in the above ROE's?


_____________________________________________________________

My thoughts on a new tourney.

2011 Ladder

Have:
10 or more reported games
500+ win/loss %
2k+ ELO
Played at least one game in the last 3 months.

Qualified players:

1) Jim von Krieg 1.00 2140
2) Theova .875 2168
3) FScout .850 2084
4) XLVIII Pz. Korp .809 2130
5) Tiger 88 .804 2216
6) Schwerpunkt75 .800 2119
7) Mike Abberton .791 2109
8) Oberst .777 2168
9) Big Dawg .736 2094
10) Larry Reese .735 2097
11) H .714 2057
12) Charlie-66 .702 2076
13) Ed .700 2105
14) Otto von Blotto .697 2088
15) Peiper .683 2162
16) Relayer .680 2096
17) RD_DeathDealer .677 2107
18) Rupert .656 2050
19) PawelM .625 2125
20) Fubar1 .625 2001

21) Hawk Kriegsman .622 2062
22) Tank Killer .616 2065
23) Deutscher Landser .615 2004
24) ernst .583 2031
25) Herr Straßen Läufer .575 2066
_______________________________________
Throwing out some thoughts. Anyone want to front this and host a linked sight to track the event? (There may yet be a link to Ravens old site. Not that we'd be able to do anything with it. But, it is a template for what could be done?)





HSL

I could run it, although I would not host a linked site to track it - rather just run it in the forum.

[Herr Straße Laufer]

Interested. What are the criteria for scenario selection? In my opinion, this has more to do with winning than almost anything else (scenario balance I mean) when players are on a par skillwise.

What happened to the old tournament?

LR

In the old tourney we had a few drop outs. And, Jim Puff passed away.
I think I was like a barking shepherd trying to keep the tournament moving.

The final match found Umbro versus Herr Nash. In the end Herr Nash came out on top.

Games were selected on the basis of the overall play and ratings for balance. I think as we went along 99% of the scenarios were thought to be "gems" that were extremely fun to play.

I was thinking of using smaller to medium sized scenarios from the H2H approved list. Or, by going through the data base and finding ones that "again" are balanced in overall play. I'm not a fan of the "new" scenario dBASE. I find it too hard to sort (but, I am willing to do it).

I'm trying to keep it interesting and challenging but also moving the tourney to a conclusion that does not take "forever".
As you said, this is Top Gun. This pits the best against the best. If done on an even playing field the feature is the players and not the scenarios they play?
All were top players. But, one was Top Gun.

I originally thought to do it as an annual event. But, it wore me out and almost burned me out.



HSL

---

I could run it, although I would not host a linked site to track it - rather just run it in the forum.

Thanks Ash!

I will keep you in mind. I think what I have as a weakness, is in doing spread sheets. Toward the middle of Top Gun, after Raven went missing, I was doing everything on a piece of note paper.
It is easier to have someone who likes spread sheets to keep track of things. And, for me to be the "carnival barker".

:drink:

HSL

[Ashcloud]

Thanks Ash!

I will keep you in mind. I think what I have as a weakness, is in doing spread sheets. Toward the middle of Top Gun, after Raven went missing, I was doing everything on a piece of note paper.
It is easier to have someone who likes spread sheets to keep track of things. And, for me to be the "carnival barker".

:drink:

HSL

I would be more than happy to do the spreadsheets - just let me know what you need - any time...

[PawelM]

For the record I am interested.

One thought about the way it is played out. We will need some adjustments. As I understand the original plan was two games per player. At the moment we have 25 players. For it to work best we would need IMHO a number of players which is multiple of four. Say if we increase the number of qualifying players to 28 we have 14 pairs. After first game we have 14 winners and 14 non-winners. Then as I understand winners play each other and loosing players crate another 7 pairs. This way it can work if I am right :)

Pawel

[Herr Straße Laufer]

For the record I am interested.
This way it can work if I am right :)

Thanks PawelM.
I searched the 2011 ladder and had these parameters in mind.
Each of the selected players was to have:
10 or more reported games
500+ win/loss %
2k+ ELO
Played at least one game in the last 3 months.

Actually there are not 25 players. I listed them as 20 and 5. I did not explain the break in between.

It's twenty players who will play as follows:

* The tournament is set up in three rounds of two scenarios each. The first two rounds will be in "round robin style". Players will be paired off based on their win/loss ratios. Winners of the first round play the winners of the comparable win/loss ratio from the first round. Losers play the losers in highest to lowest win/loss pairings.

* In the first two rounds points would be awarded for each game as follows;
Major win - 5 points
Minor win - 4 points
Draw - 3 points
Minor loss - 2 points
Major loss - 1 point

I listed twenty and five players so that if there are any who do not wish to participate the twenty minimum will be met (and I did not have far to search for replacement players). The five can have a place on the bench and replace anyone that cannot play or drops out.

Having twenty was almost too much the last time. But, it worked and I think twenty is a good number.

Advancing to the the second game, of the first round, the winners play against the winners and the losers play the losers. They are paired based on their scores and ties are broken by their ladder win/loss percentages.

It's not a bracket until the end. It's four games to the final round.

* The final round will be an 'elimination' round. In the final round the four top players will be paired by their tourney point totals, as listed above, highest to lowest. Winners move on to the final scenario. The winner of the final match will be crowned "Top Gun" and receive a badge and one hundred Ladder points.

Selection to the final round is based on highest tournament score. Ties are broken by win/loss %. If a tie still exists in win/loss then the one with the highest ELO between the two wins. If, and this is a big if, a tie exists after all three criteria are checked, a small balanced scenario will be chosen for a sudden death match.



HSL

[Herr Straße Laufer]

Bumped ... to not drop off first page.

HSL

[Big Ivan]

HSL,

I think your criteria for qualified players is a bit tight for those of us who have more pressing issues in life than the blitz.

I think you should reconsider those numbers.

Ivan The Big:smoke2:

[Herr Straße Laufer]

Sorry Ivan, I do not see it that way. :reporter:

The scenarios choices will be from smaller sized ones.
And, the parameters for those selected included ones that dealt with the amount of games played by each player. Even at that we are talking a year or so commitment? At least that is what occurred the last time.

It is up to the individual commit what is required or they should not sign up? The tournament will either fall apart or go on with those who want to see who is Top Gun.

If too many player of ability do not sign up I will scroll further down the ladder but I do not want to dip below .500 win/loss or 2K ELO.

Two to three turns a week on a smaller sized scenario is not a strain. And, we did make exceptions when the vacation period was in bloom.

Maybe I see Top Gun as a commitment by those who earned the right to play in it. Even if Top Gun scenarios become their only play?



HSL