leaders under fire :)

PawelM · 02-25-2012, 10:16 AM,

I wonder if anyone had a similar feeling that the way the direct fire on solitary leader (i.e. no other unit present in the hex) is a bit in favour of the leaders.

My understanding is that a solitary leader subjected to deirect fire has 5% chance of being eliminated, i.e. the same when occupying the hex with another unit under fire but then it cannot be targeted explicitly. Please correct me if I am wrong. But as I understand a stand alone leader cannot be forced to retreat with direct fire - only eliminated with 5% chance of success.

This led to numoerous frustrations of trying to get rid of enemy leader (after eliminating unit sharing the hex) in order to prohibit the opponnent retaining LOS for the next turn... It is not much of an issue if assault on the leader is possible/feasible. But it is frustrating still having a leader watching over my units after anything from infatry to tanks hitting at it. Anyone experienced such a frustrations?

I would think there should be a chance of retreating the leader with direct fire (on top of possiblity of elimination)- well unless there is and I was so unlucky in all my games never to do it.

Or maybe it is just me again :)

Kool Kat · (This post was last modified: 02-25-2012, 09:24 PM by Kool Kat.)

Gents:

"A Leader cannot be singled out as the target of an attack unless he is the only occupant of a hex. Therefore, it is advisable to keep your Leaders stacked with friendly unit(s) of his command. Each time a hex containing a Leader is attacked, there is a 4% chance he will become a casualty." - CS Manual

"...a Japanese Leader is twice as likely to become a casualty as a Leader of another nationality (thus, an 8% chance if stacked with a friendly unit, or 20% chance if alone in a hex)." - CS Manual

So, based on the above, non-Japanese leaders would have a 10% chance of becoming a casualty if attacked while alone in a hex.

I have played games in which both the commander (Foot) and (Mot) retreated after direct fire while alone... but I would think the percentage chance would be higher for motorized commanders? Idea2

PawelM · 02-25-2012, 10:12 PM,

Ok I go the number wrong. :)
:bow: :)
But does anyone know what is the propability of a leader as a solitary hex occupier and a target to be force into retreat by means of direct fire? I could not find anything on that in the manual. And also I do not recall it ever happening for me but this is just a side line of my bad luck to dice.

Can anyone enlighten me how likely is it in the game to force the leader retrat as above?
Based on my limited experience the propablity must be even lower tha chance of eliminating the leader.

Von Earlmann · 02-25-2012, 10:14 PM,

(02-25-2012, 10:12 PM)PawelM Wrote: Ok I go the number wrong. :)
:bow: :)
But does anyone know what is the propability of a leader as a solitary hex occupier and a target to be force into retreat by means of direct fire? I could not find anything on that in the manual. And also I do not recall it ever happening for me but this is just a side line of my bad luck to dice.

Can anyone enlighten me how likely is it in the game to force the leader retrat as above?
Based on my limited experience the propablity must be even lower tha chance of eliminating the leader.

I have found the best way to take on solitary leaders is to direct assault them...........not that I get many chances to do that :-)

VE

PawelM · 02-25-2012, 10:29 PM,

(02-25-2012, 10:14 PM)Von Earlmann Wrote:
(02-25-2012, 10:12 PM)PawelM Wrote: Ok I go the number wrong. :)
:bow: :)
But does anyone know what is the propability of a leader as a solitary hex occupier and a target to be force into retreat by means of direct fire? I could not find anything on that in the manual. And also I do not recall it ever happening for me but this is just a side line of my bad luck to dice.

Can anyone enlighten me how likely is it in the game to force the leader retrat as above?
Based on my limited experience the propablity must be even lower tha chance of eliminating the leader.

I have found the best way to take on solitary leaders is to direct assault them...........not that I get many chances to do that :-)

VE

Sometime I want to just fend off a soliitary leader so my opponent does not maintain my units in LOS. Andd the leader is the only unit allowing that in some cases. In a situation the assault is feasible no problem. But sometimes they out of range for APs to assault them or I am aware there is a bunch of bad guys behind waiting to hit my assaulting unit. Effectively I would need to sacrify assaulting unit. So direct fire seems the option. But with only 10 percent chance of killing the leader and unkunquantified chance (if any) of retreating the leader I was frustruted waisting my AP trying to fend of a solitary leader after killing his shielding unit....

I think the chances of retreating the leader standing on its own should be higher than they are. i stress retreating not eliminating. I imagine only a handful of individuals like chuck norris or rambo or other superheroes would stand too long when tank and inf platoons are firing at them :)

Kool Kat · (This post was last modified: 03-03-2012, 10:18 AM by Kool Kat.)

Gents:

At the danger of "over" rationalizing this situation... remember we are referencing a 250 meter area... lots of possible terrain that a solitary individual can hide? Like looking for a needle in a haystack? Farmer

Generally... I would think the enemy would get one round to eliminate the solitary leader... before your opponent retreated the commander to other friendly units and/or out of the line of fire.

PawelM · (This post was last modified: 02-25-2012, 11:06 PM by PawelM.)

(02-25-2012, 10:45 PM)Kool Kat Wrote: Gents:

At the danger of "over" rationalizing this situation... remember we are referencing a 250 meter area... lots of possible terrain that a solitary individual can hide? Like looking for a needle in a haystack?

Generally... I would think the enemy would get one round to eliminate the solitary leader... before your opponent retreated the commander to other friendly units and/or out of the line of fire.

Even for 250m of open terrain :)
I just feel it is unprpoprtionately difficult in the game -lets forget the real life :) - to force the leader to retreat compared to other units. 1 SP platoon of few peopl of a single tank is easier to fend off than a commander.

and sometimes 1 turn matters in prohibiting the enemy of LOS on my units.

Does anyone know what are the chances of retreating a commander ? Eliminating numbers have been quoted already in this thread. Is there a smiliar number for a chanc of retreat? Or there are other criteria?

**Big Ivan** · 02-26-2012, 12:42 AM,

PawelM brought up an intersesting point also about spotting. In my experience I didn't think leaders could spot. I maybe wrong but I think they see like a truck or wagon, just "?" for where enemy units are.

Thoughts?

ItB:smoke2:

PawelM · (This post was last modified: 02-26-2012, 02:30 AM by PawelM.)

From my gaming experience the leader have a spotting capabilities of a normal unit... I did experience it on my own skin when a commander of my opponent allowed them to hit at my units as they were spotted by othe combat units. And thi is why I am after finding out about forcing commanders to retreat with direct fire. Otherwise i would not be bothered too much

**Big Ivan** · (This post was last modified: 02-26-2012, 04:00 AM by Big Ivan.)

Thanks Pawel,

Interesting, I learned something. Come to think of it I haven't noticed in the 1.04 JTCS. I just assumed they couldn't spot like real units. But I will look for it now. I may be thinking of the 1.02 versions of the system. So maybe that was changed when JTCS 1.04 came out.

Thanks
Ivan the Big:smoke2: