Request for an Important Thread: "Rules of Engagement for PBEM Games"

[Crossroads]

Dear all...

ROEs pop up once and a while. Folks of the old guard are often expecting a certain behaviour, while the newbies are not (and cannot be) aware of them in advance.

At the same time, the old timers can forget the Hawk's Law, as they are accustomed to playing each other, and forget the newbies might have no idea of certain restrictions expected by the old timer.

Often, even old timers disagree of what the realistic game consists of.

For this purpose, I propose one of the mods would create a sticky to remind everyone to agree on these beforehand. The sticky would be a locked one, and only accesible for modification by one of the mods.



FIRST, we would establish the Ground Rules, and then, we could draft a set of specific rules.

Luckily, the first part is already available. It is known as the Hawk's Law, and here it is in its full glory (gosh Eric, you sure have the skill to squeeze lots of wisdom into a few words only )

Hawk's Law

1: If there are no ROE's stated then none are in play. Everything goes.

2: Other than cheating the Blitz has no ROE's regarding game play.

3: If you are better than your oppoent you will beat him the majority of the time no matter what tactics he uses.

4: For every "gamey" tactic there is an answer. Go find it.

5: If you play me please spot with your trucks and lead with your halftracks. You will lose.

6: Enough hand wringing. Go play.

The purpose of the Ground Rule is to remind everyone that if you've not agreed on a ROE, well there aren't any. Only cheating disallowed. End of.

I mean this in a positive manner, so that people would discuss this especially when playing some one they haven't played earlier.

Btw. The discussion revolving Hawk's Law can be found here: https://www.theblitz.club/message_boards...hlight=roe


THEN, we would create a set (as one consisting of subsets) of basic ROEs the good folks can refer to: Let us use the Blitzer's PBEM ROE of Use of HTs.

Perhaps a separate thread can be created for each subset (use of armed HTs, use of non-armed transportation, rules for exiting map, etc)...

Once a consensus is available, that particular subset would be added to the Sticky by one of the mods.

It needs not to be the ultimate consensus, just the lowest common nominator. Anything already available would help people to form their wishes on a more clear manner that leaves less room for misunderstandments.

Or there could be a couple of rule sets available. HT Rule the Strict Version, and HT Rule the Relaxed Version.

Now I know these have been a cause for some flame wars in the past, but I am sure we can do this in a civilised manner.

Most importantly, these would help any newcomers to adapt to our fine community.

The thing is I am pretty maxed out and will not start any of those subset rule threads. Please pick up from here if you believe this is a good idea.

But even stickying the Ground Rule would benefit the community IMHO.

Just my 0.02 of course. Peace.

[Herr Straße Laufer]

Funny.
Except for #2 and possibly #6, I do not agree with Hawks Law. Never did.

And, as far as personal ROE's, there has never been a consensus.
Most likely there never will be.

I have simple ROE's. I usually discuss them prior to play. They've been written dozens of times on the forums, almost since I joined nine years ago.
Most players know them. Some players have their own.

Don't tell me that "the game allows it and therefore I am free to do it". I do like to play more historically than "gamey". :smoke2:

I know it is not just me. If someone has special ROE's they need to let me know ahead of time.

I really think that having a club enforced set of ROE, beyond cheating, will not work.

And, I do not recall any flame wars over discussions of ROE's.
But, I do remember flame wars over the lack of a prior discussion and then players who wanted to bring them out in public during, and/or after, the fact.



HSL

[Crossroads]

Aye. My single and sole purpose when proposing the Sticky was to remind everyone to agree on these before the battle commencing. On this we agree, yes?

I am quite strong on #1 though. How could a ROE be in place if it has not been agreed upon, let alone discussed?

---

Btw, I want some pop corn as well!

[Kool Kat]

Petri:

It's the responsibility of the player to inform his opponent of any preferred or unacceptable ROE's prior to starting a PBeM match.

I understand where you are trying to go with these ROE "rules" - but I'm afraid these will be too unmanageable from a "Blitz enforcement" standpoint.

[Crossroads]

Mike,

My intent was to present a sticky to remind everyone to agree on these before the game.

Anything beyond that would be a bonus.

[Scud]

I don't see any reason a list of optional ROEs can't be put in place, to help newcomers decide what exceptions to the manual they might want in place, like exiting vehicles, assualts with halftracks, etc. These optional ROEs, though, can't be Blitz rules, merely listed options some players like to use.

It would also makes it easier to discuss rules up front, if there's a list in place somewhere that a player could refer to before starting a game with an unknown opponent.

The biggest problem I see, though, is the arguments that might ensue in discussing what options should be on the list in the first place. :)

Dave

[Crossroads]

Dave,

I agree 100% with all points you make

[PawelM]

I don't see any reason a list of optional ROEs can't be put in place, to help newcomers decide what exceptions to the manual they might want in place, like exiting vehicles, assualts with halftracks, etc. These optional ROEs, though, can't be Blitz rules, merely listed options some players like to use.

It would also makes it easier to discuss rules up front, if there's a list in place somewhere that a player could refer to before starting a game with an unknown opponent.

The biggest problem I see, though, is the arguments that might ensue in discussing what options should be on the list in the first place. :)

Dave

Dave I think this is what I think would be very useful to the newcomers -like myself - who have no means of knowing unwritten rules which might be expected by long term members. There are numbers of ROE's that would not even cross my mind (call me a dumbass I do not care) few months ago before joining up the Blitz.

Personally I enjoy playing those gamers who adhere to their set of ROE's and those who play the way the game allows. I would not want to have to choose between the two options. Therefore I think for the person like me ( newbie and open for any rules set) it would be useful to be told before the game we playing rule number 5,10 and 37 as listed at the Blitz optional ROE compilation. This then gaurantees enjoyable game free of any misunderstandings...

I think this is more sensible approach than assuming someone should know that sort of thing.....

Pawel

[Herr Straße Laufer]

LOL!
This discussion is as amusing as it has always been.

Though having a sticky stating that you should always discuss personal ROE's prior to starting a PBEM match, is not a bad thing. And, just may be needed?

All my personal ROE's have been debated and some turned down by opponents.

Extreme Assault should be used only when the scenario is designed for it. Or, we can agree that it would make a classic scenario more balanced.

Trucks and unarmed transports/halftracks should never be used as combat units. They should not scout, block roads or line of sight, draw fire, or be used to surround a disrupted combat unit that is about to be assaulted.(Please, leave out the "I got a radio and I am going to drive fifty miles into the enemy rear to direct the fire of artillery or attacks by planes.)

Half Tracks (with a combat factor) are combat units but should not be used to roam all over the map, or assault enemy disrupted armor without friendly armor or infantry. (Again. Please, leave out the "I got a radio and I am going to drive fifty miles into the enemy rear to direct the fire of artillery or attacks by planes.)

Leaders should be stacked with friendly assaulting units when they assault.

Years of debate. But, I believe these are solid personal ROE's that make the game a more historical simulation than a game.

I do not care for "gamey" in the game. Sorry, just because ROE's have not been discussed, the game will end when and if ROE's are broken. Don't give me the rules lawyer; "well you should have told me that my wave of trucks blocking the exit hex to your units can be justified by ..."
Sorry! Claim your victory and find someone else "gamey" that will play you.
If anyone wants to know my ROE's they should just ask.



HSL

[Von Earlmann]

HALFTRACKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!............HALFTRACKS!!!!!!!................HALFTRACKS.................I love the halftrack debate..........I like whiskey and beer sometimes but the halftrack debate is almost better than sex on a cold winter night..........I said almost here guys :-)

VE