2012 Ladder scoring has problems

[Scud]

That makes sense - how is the ELO rating calculated?

Read all about it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elo_rating_system

Frankly, it gives me a headache. :)

Dave

[Askari19]

That makes sense - how is the ELO rating calculated?

Read all about it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elo_rating_system

Frankly, it gives me a headache. :)

Dave

Woof. Me too. I get the concept, anyway, though not how it is calculated for the Blitz ladder. Good enough, I think digging deeper might be about as much fun as watching sausage being made.

[Kool Kat]

I had no idea about the whole concept of "bonus points" until now, and I'm not sure I care for it. Not that it matters for anything.

The bonus point system has been in place for many years. Bonus points are mentioned in several of the Club's ROE's including ROE #21 "Tournaments."

The H2H Scenario Testing section specifically notes that both designers and play testers will receive "... 20 points per size modifier..." for approved H2H scenarios / submitted test reports.

Also, each player's profile has a "Bonuses" section that any Blitzer may access to see the bonus points that are awarded for other contributions to the club - H2H scenario development / testing, writing book reviews, writing AAR's, hosting tourneys, etc.

Why shouldn't players who contribute to the Blitz be awarded / recognized for their efforts by bonus points?

Folks can still sort and figure other information from the Ladder statistics:

Best players: Click on ELO
Most games won: Click on that heading
Contributors to the Blitz: Click on Score

Again, here at the Blitz, we recognize players for their gaming wins... in addition to a myriad of other activities.

[PawelM]

The fact that something has been in place for years does not make it best by default. I suppose the discussion between members who would want to see ladder points to be purely competetive or awarded for myriad of activites could be endless.

Personally I would prefere the ladder to be competetive item overall in terms of points ELO and win ratio. Again this is personal preference and other may have a different oppinion which I respect. Membership in the clube does not oblidge to have a single oppinion on the game and how things are to be dealt with in the club.

I think bonuses for testin are relatively high. 20 x SM and then again for sugmitting the report means effectively 40x SM. Given that major win is 12 xSM this gives more than 3:1 ratio for test game vs a "normal" game.

I would be interested in seeing a poll in the forum too see what people thing about this.

Could I request moderators to arrange poll with 2 question like this:

1. Do you think ladder points should be awarded purely for competetive games?
A. Yes
B. No
C. I do not care

2. Do you think the bonuses for game testing are too high?

A. Yes
B. No
C. I do not care

I am not asking for any action beyond that, but i think it would be an interesting poll.

[Herr Straße Laufer]

Then, when you view the ladder, sort the ladder by ELO score?

Also, something done for years does not make it a bad thing either. :fireman2:
I was a big fan of the "overall club ladder". I am not a big fan of the "year ladders". I was not a big fan of ELO being added.
I am sure the overall club ladder will not be brought back and the year ladders and/or ELO will be removed.

My answer to question #1 is B. No
My answer to question #2 is B. No

New scenarios that are balanced and fun to play by e-mail are good for the game series and the ladder. Contributions that garner bonus points are also good for the ladder, the game, and the club.

And, I thought all members had the ability to post up polls?



HSL

[Otto von Blotto]

I suppose the discussion between members who would want to see ladder points to be purely competetive or awarded for myriad of activites could be endless.

As this thread obviously shows.

I think bonuses for testin are relatively high. 20 x SM and then again for sugmitting the report means effectively 40x SM. Given that major win is 12 xSM this gives more than 3:1 ratio for test game vs a "normal" game.

I think your maths are out you only get one set of points as far as I am aware that includes the testing and submitting not points for each. so 20 X SM not 40 X SM

If it's too many points or not is up to the club officials to decide, as a show of who's good at playing there are already two very adequate indicators ELO and win loss ratio add to that each players profile shows what points are competitive and which are bonus why would you need total points as well.

People are giving up there precious game time that they could be acclimating games played and hopefully wins to improve the game for all at the moment they are rewarded for doing so and more people are involved, in the past they have not and less balanced games were developed.

Why not join in and test a couple as well it can only help the game develop in the long run.


Edit : poll answers
1: no
2: Don't care

[PawelM]

I followed Mr KK advice and looked at bonuses awarded to few members he suggested earlier in this thread. What I can see is the test game bonus is followed up but a test report bonus. Also based on Mr Kk explanations I got the impresssion that when a member completes test game gets a bonus of 20 x SM and the similar bonus 20 x SM after submitting a report. Which leads to 40 x SM .... Maths is my strong side but I was not sure if my initial assumptions (see above).

I view the table based on ELO already.

If I am able to set up a poll I will ( once I figure out how).
Based on this thread my opinnion is shared by a minority only or perphaps people in favour of bonuses are more vocal.. This is the last thing I would like to find out....

Other than that as I said earlier it would be like discussing endlessly if chips are better with or without ketchup :)........ A purely peronal preference dependant .....

[PawelM]

And also if contributions like testing require reward does it mean there should be pints fordonations, i.e. 1. Dollar per point? I do not think so .... But still both are just 2 different way of contributing to the benefit of the club one might argue.

[Herr Straße Laufer]

And also if contributions like testing require reward does it mean there should be pints fordonations, i.e. 1. Dollar per point? I do not think so .... But still both are just 2 different way of contributing to the benefit of the club one might argue.

How about bonus points for arguing apples to oranges?
Or, bonus points for figuring out how to use the forum pages?
Bonus points for logging in with your name visible?

If it is not that important to you, why belabor the point?
Let's not start the lawn mower and forget what it is for?

Five questions that explain life.



HSL

[Otto von Blotto]

And also if contributions like testing require reward does it mean there should be pints fordonations, i.e. 1. Dollar per point? I do not think so .... But still both are just 2 different way of contributing to the benefit of the club one might argue.

I think this is very different and I think you do to so I'm not sure what you were trying to prove with this statement.?

For me it's bad enough everyone on a ladder knowing when a donation is made as I believe donations to things and what someone does with there money is their affair and no one else's. This point did stop me giving a donation to the club for a long while..

To think that anyone could buy there way without any effort is bad enough but to think anyone else could look up how much was given in a bonus points award is pretty distasteful and I would think would stop any donations to the club at all.

As you say you already use ELO and win loss and are not really bothered, I am at a loss to understand why you think it's such a big thing that warrants polls, comparisons, analysis and further in-depth discussions. ?