Overloon Scenarios

[Scud]

Anyone ever play Huib's "Overloon" scenarios? I'm playing my brother and am the allies. I'm getting crushed in both. Can't get through the stinking woods in the first one (The Woods of Overloon), and in the second can't get across the river (Constellation: Overloon). Everything mined and tank-trapped. Tried smoke (ran out) engineers (disrupted or killed), claw tanks (moderately effective, but weakened). Just when I think I'm getting somewhere, German PzV's start hitting me, completely outranging my Churchill's. MG-42's have been murder too, though I've tried to stay out of their LOS.

So, convinced the scenarios are lopsided, I look them up and no, pretty even. Huib's scenarios often have a lot of mine fields and obstacles. I think I just don't get the hang of clearing them without losing too much in the process.

Dave

[K K Rossokolski]

. Huib's scenarios often have a lot of mine fields and obstacles.
Dave

Just like the real thing, I should think.

[John Given]

Hi David, long time no see!

I haven't played those scenarios before, but I have a few suggestions that I'd like to throw in for the heck of it:

1. With Huib's scenarios (which are some of the best and a joy to play), you must study the map very closely. Often, there is a secret or "trick" to the map that will let you in the back way. Once, an opponent of mine lost a scenario when he failed to notice a shallow in a major river. I blew up two bridges, and he resigned, never noticing the 'back door' in the map.

2. Remember the 'harmony' of infantry advancement under fire:

a. the turn before the advance, figure where you could get your infantry in the next two turns.
b. lay down smoke at the end of the current turn (if you have the artillery for it)
c. the following turn, move the infantry into the smoke (should be 3 or 4 hexes toward the enemy if possible), and bring loaded carriers closer to the front line.
d. take your losses for the turn (it happens to everyone), but take solace that the smoke lessened your casualties.
e. the following turn, 'burst' toward the enemy - now that the smoke is gone, double time your infantry and move them as far as they can go. Even through forest, they will often move two hexes when double timed. A lot of people don't know this!
f. Move your carriers up to where they can unload AND move back a hex. Otherwise, the hex will likely by overstacked and you'll take extra casualties from fire and artillery next turn.
g. if you have the smoke for it, wash rinse and repeat. Often, the extra visibility gained from this advance (which should carry you 4 hexes or so this turn alone) will make repeating this method unnecessary, unless you run into a new line of resistance later.

This method should move your infantry 4 to 8 hexes distant in two turns, depending on terrain.

When it comes to mines, if my situation is desperate, I look for the strength of the mine in view 4. It will have a number on the counter that will tell you the mine strength. If you're facing losing the scenario if you can't get through, move your infantry (one at a time) through a strength ONE mine - as many as you need to. Desperate times call for desperate action!

You can do this with vehicles too. Yes, you'll take a few casualties and disruptions, but sometimes it may be your best chance. Best results are with low-value infantry.

Anyway, that's one method I use when up against really tough odds - almost always better to let the infantry take the hits in a scenario and preserve your vehicles.

[Scud]

Hi John! Where've you been?

Thanks for the advice. I pretty much did all that up until reaching the mines and traps, at least with the Constellation scenario. I'm trying to bring as much as I can through a flank, while trying to hold him in other areas. I'm finally moving through the mines anyway, since, like you say, I'm desperate. There may be a clue in the map I didn't see. Wouldn't surprise me.

Pretty challenging scenarios. Just wish I were putting up a better fight.

Dave

[Larry Reese]

You're all crazy as a loon!

LR

[Scud]

You're all crazy as a loon!

LR

Your point?

db

[John Given]

Hi John! Where've you been?

Thanks for the advice. I pretty much did all that up until reaching the mines and traps, at least with the Constellation scenario. I'm trying to bring as much as I can through a flank, while trying to hold him in other areas. I'm finally moving through the mines anyway, since, like you say, I'm desperate. There may be a clue in the map I didn't see. Wouldn't surprise me.

Pretty challenging scenarios. Just wish I were putting up a better fight.

Dave

Hey David, I can't see what your forces are up to, but it sounds like Mike can see pretty much see where most of your forces are, and what they're up to. This is probably the hardest part of an attack - getting your advance set up in such a way that your opponent doesn't suspect anything.

1. You may want to try a diversion - a small advance of expendables that draws his attention (and units) in another direction, but this is only practical in large scenarios where you have expendable units that won't likely change the outcome. This method is also handy because it's a great way to probe his line and see what is where.

2. Recon and anti-recon! You MUST be able to see his forces: he MUST NOT be able to see yours. So how to go about that? Again,

a. use expendable units (3 point value infantry or 2-point value vehicles) to check out what he's up to. It's imperative to set these guys up EARLY in the scenario, because once his force is organized and laid out against you, it will be extremely difficult to find a way in.

b. Try to get to a point where you suspect his units will likely move through, and just hide in the woods if you can and turn off that units' op-fire. Best results with low-sp platoons (to minimize chance of being spotted). These spotter units should be well-forward of your line to do their job properly. Expect to lose all of them eventually. While spotting, just air-strike and artillery blast to your hearts' content. (IMO, late-war axis armored cars are not good for this role, since they are high-value units that do better in other roles like anti-aircraft and rear-area patrol.)

3. My philosophy on mines. They are a two edged sword - they restrict movement and damage your units, but the enemy will often think you won't dare come through there. An advance through mines of even a battalion-sized force (give a turn or two to recover from disruptions) could easily win the game for you if he hasn't prepared for an attack from that direction.

Note: don't ever move loaded units through mines, especially infantry on tanks and motorcycle riders. If you absolutely must carry the unit (in a truck for example), be certain the carrier has at least 2 additional strength than what is required to carry the unit. Once through the mines, you can re-load your infantry.

4. The nuance of maps. This should mainly be done on the first turn. I love to study CS series maps - they are often well-made and even beautiful. While looking at them during my early-game planning, I make special note of the following:

a. Shallow places in rivers or streams - be extra careful in rough terrain as it can cover the hexside. Press "R" to rotate the map so that you can see it from the opposite side.

b. Whether existing bridges are intact or not. I shift to view 4 to help on this. Sometimes the map will even tell you if a bridge is blown.

c. What my own bridge-making capabilities are. It is possible that you could use engineers to make light bridges, and that gets your small vehicles and infantry across. (is it possible to build heavier bridges or use bridge layers? I have yet to look into this...)

d. My mine removal abilities. Do not ever attempt to have your engineer vehicle remove mines while enemies can see it. Do not attempt to remove mines you don't need to remove - stick to the mission! Also, when advancing, have an expendable vehicle in front to detect an enemy mine / ambushes, and engineers following. That way, the truck carrying your engineers won't get KO'd. It's the only way I've found to move fast on mine-infested maps.

e. After checking what it will take to get a victory, determine what objectives you will need to take - study the map carefully for this. Often, there will be 'red herring' objectives that you should not attempt to take - a perfect example is a lot of far-flung exit hexes. I almost never exit units for example.

f. Leave some damaged and disrupted units behind to 'babysit' captured objective hexes. That used to be an issue for me, causing me to lose some objectives later in the game. This one is very important if you have a fluid battle situation or maybe an opponent who doesn't respect your front line...

5. A special rule that always worked for me: Don't leave vehicles in LOS of the enemy at the end of your current turn!

Anyway, I hope you gleaned a hint or two out of this, Dave?

[Ashcloud]

Hi John! Where've you been?

Thanks for the advice. I pretty much did all that up until reaching the mines and traps, at least with the Constellation scenario. I'm trying to bring as much as I can through a flank, while trying to hold him in other areas. I'm finally moving through the mines anyway, since, like you say, I'm desperate. There may be a clue in the map I didn't see. Wouldn't surprise me.

Pretty challenging scenarios. Just wish I were putting up a better fight.

Dave

Hey David, I can't see what your forces are up to, but it sounds like Mike can see pretty much see where most of your forces are, and what they're up to. This is probably the hardest part of an attack - getting your advance set up in such a way that your opponent doesn't suspect anything.

1. You may want to try a diversion - a small advance of expendables that draws his attention (and units) in another direction, but this is only practical in large scenarios where you have expendable units that won't likely change the outcome. This method is also handy because it's a great way to probe his line and see what is where.

2. Recon and anti-recon! You MUST be able to see his forces: he MUST NOT be able to see yours. So how to go about that? Again,

a. use expendable units (3 point value infantry or 2-point value vehicles) to check out what he's up to. It's imperative to set these guys up EARLY in the scenario, because once his force is organized and laid out against you, it will be extremely difficult to find a way in.

b. Try to get to a point where you suspect his units will likely move through, and just hide in the woods if you can and turn off that units' op-fire. Best results with low-sp platoons (to minimize chance of being spotted). These spotter units should be well-forward of your line to do their job properly. Expect to lose all of them eventually. While spotting, just air-strike and artillery blast to your hearts' content. (IMO, late-war axis armored cars are not good for this role, since they are high-value units that do better in other roles like anti-aircraft and rear-area patrol.)

3. My philosophy on mines. They are a two edged sword - they restrict movement and damage your units, but the enemy will often think you won't dare come through there. An advance through mines of even a battalion-sized force (give a turn or two to recover from disruptions) could easily win the game for you if he hasn't prepared for an attack from that direction.

Note: don't ever move loaded units through mines, especially infantry on tanks and motorcycle riders. If you absolutely must carry the unit (in a truck for example), be certain the carrier has at least 2 additional strength than what is required to carry the unit. Once through the mines, you can re-load your infantry.

4. The nuance of maps. This should mainly be done on the first turn. I love to study CS series maps - they are often well-made and even beautiful. While looking at them during my early-game planning, I make special note of the following:

a. Shallow places in rivers or streams - be extra careful in rough terrain as it can cover the hexside. Press "R" to rotate the map so that you can see it from the opposite side.

b. Whether existing bridges are intact or not. I shift to view 4 to help on this. Sometimes the map will even tell you if a bridge is blown.

c. What my own bridge-making capabilities are. It is possible that you could use engineers to make light bridges, and that gets your small vehicles and infantry across. (is it possible to build heavier bridges or use bridge layers? I have yet to look into this...)

d. My mine removal abilities. Do not ever attempt to have your engineer vehicle remove mines while enemies can see it. Do not attempt to remove mines you don't need to remove - stick to the mission! Also, when advancing, have an expendable vehicle in front to detect an enemy mine / ambushes, and engineers following. That way, the truck carrying your engineers won't get KO'd. It's the only way I've found to move fast on mine-infested maps.

e. After checking what it will take to get a victory, determine what objectives you will need to take - study the map carefully for this. Often, there will be 'red herring' objectives that you should not attempt to take - a perfect example is a lot of far-flung exit hexes. I almost never exit units for example.

f. Leave some damaged and disrupted units behind to 'babysit' captured objective hexes. That used to be an issue for me, causing me to lose some objectives later in the game. This one is very important if you have a fluid battle situation or maybe an opponent who doesn't respect your front line...

5. A special rule that always worked for me: Don't leave vehicles in LOS of the enemy at the end of your current turn!

Anyway, I hope you gleaned a hint or two out of this, Dave?

Thanks John, fantastic tips.

[Scud]

Thanks, John. Great tips. Unfortunately, "Woods" is over. I'm waiting to get Mike's last turn to see just what he has back there. "Constellation" is progressing a little better, but I'm still in major loss territory. My kingdom for more smoke. :)

Tough scenarios for anyone looking for a challenge...at least, I think. :rolleyes2:

Dave

[John Given]

David, Ashcloud, you're both very welcome! Maybe someone reading this thread can get a useful tip or two from this.

I don't suppose you have any screenshots of the battle you could send my way Dave?