Medics in Cold War - questions

[John Given]

Hey Stefan (or anyone), I just completed 'Koblenzer Versuchung' vs. the computer (I played German forces). I love the mod!

I am curious though about the medics - they seem to be ambulance type units (re-skinned trucks) with a -3 point value per sp (and 4 sp's per platoon). Nice skin on them too (actually, awesome skins on pretty much everything)

What is their primary function in Cold War? My guess is that they are to discourage blind-shelling, but I was wondering if they have any special abilities of any kind.

Thanks in advance.

P.S. I really want to play the Soviets in the next game - they get a lot of neat-looking stuff - incredible variety of units.

[Panther]

Hi John,

well, in first line they are only a new unit type in the game, not more! Set in to bring fun, not trouble. They are built with the values of the leaders and battalions.

They should give a better reinforcement for "wounded" units, the "health" process can work faster.

If you see they have also negative values. Why? My idea was that the enemy should not kill the medics. If so, it cost points.

That´s all. If you follow the discussion you see that most of the players have an other opinion. That´s ok. Some of the comments have a good view, but in this program it isn´t possible to realise all exactly.

Maybe you have seen that the medics are a part in - don´t know exactly - two or three scenarios.

R
Stefan

If you like we can play a game together!

[John Given]

Hi Panther,

Well I just enjoy the large unit variety in Cold War - it's a huge plus. And I had noticed the neg. point value, which also struck me as realistic. I was keeping the medics with the disrupted units (I always try to move disrupted units back when I can) to recover.

Yes, shame about the poll - I feel that our hobby must continue to evolve and grow if it is to survive. However, there are always mods!

And yes, I would enjoy a game Panther! Pick a scenario (any size is ok) and send it over.

P.S. Big Ivan is right about one thing - CW would be easier to understand for our english speaking players if there were some translations made - I thought that the unit text file would be easiest to translate, and it would not be all that hard. Any plans to do it?

[Jason Petho]

Have you looked at the commissars in the Russian OOB?

They operate in the same way, affecting only Morale (in theory).

Jason Petho

[Crossroads]

I've studied TO&Es and am considering medical units as well. Field Hospitals with strong SP values for improving morale, medical platoons with less SPs, medic squads with minor SPs. In comparison, Leader (div), leader (bn), leader (coy).

A question though: if medics affect morale to improve recovering from disruption, does that improve the fire values of accompanying units too?

Or would it be possible to limit them from doing that.

As leaders improve both capabilities.

[John Given]

I've studied TO&Es and am considering medical units as well. Field Hospitals with strong SP values for improving morale, medical platoons with less SPs, medic squads with minor SPs. In comparison, Leader (div), leader (bn), leader (coy).

A question though: if medics affect morale to improve recovering from disruption, does that improve the fire values of accompanying units too?

Or would it be possible to limit them from doing that.

As leaders improve both capabilities.

Hey battle kat - I'm not a coder, but I would think you could assign a command rating of zero in order to prevent medics from raising that stat.

Btw, I had envisioned the following regarding my medic stats proposal:

Medic - looks like foot officer.

Morale boost; 1
Defense, 1
Strength points: One (or maybe two)
Point value: -2 per sp

Ambulance - looks like a truck or maybe (motorized) HQ.

Morale boost: 2
Defense: 2
Strength points: 2 (or possibly up to 4 like in Cold War)
Point value: -3 per sp

Doctor / Surgeon - looks like a staff car or jeep (depends on army)

*These units need to be rare*

Morale boost: 3
Defense: 3
Strength points: hard to say - anywhere from one to 4
Point value: -4 per sp

Mobile Army Surgical Hospital (M.A.S.H.) - looks like a supply depot

*Unit is immobile* (or perhaps must be 'loaded' and has a 100 mp loading cost?)

Morale boost: 4
Defense: 4
Strength points: up to 6
Point value: -5 per sp

That was the general idea I had in mind with regard to my medic unit proposal btw. It doesn't seem overpowered or unrealistic to me but some other folks (apparently) disagree. It's all good.

And good call on the commissars Jason - I didn't know they had special abilities - it's worth checking them out.

[Panther]

Well Gentlemen,

a lot of good and interesting new thoughts. I'm a little busy today but i will answer to you when i have more time.

R
Stefan

[Crossroads]

I've been thinking about how to add medical logistics into JTCS, a platoon scale game, and here's my thoughts so far.

As for motivation for their existence, they would not be considered to have any wounded recover his wounds and return to front lines, but rather, removing the need for a shot-out disrupted platoon to transfer their wounded to locations where medical care was given, thus freeing them to return to their duties at front lines.

IMHO this logic works within the scale of the game.

First, here's what I found about our TO&E during WW II regarding medical care.

Companies each had a Medical Squad of 1 progressing to 2 Medic NCO + 5 medics, responsible for transfering the wounded to a Dressing Station.




A Dressing Station would have a morale boost effect of that of a level 3 commander. If possible, it would be possible to transport it with a truck, each load/unload would be 100 AP.





Normally there was one dressing station per Battalion. A Dressing Station had a Doctor and a few additional medics, and was able to provide the basic medical services such as stopping bleeding, removing splinters, giving pain reduces.

They did not perform surgery, but prepared the more severely wounded to be transfered to Regimental Main Dressing Station.





A Main Dressing Station would have a morale boost of a level 5 commander. If possible, it would be possible to transport it with a truck, each load/unload would be 100 AP.

Also, a Main Dressing Station would have 3 Ambulances, one for each of its Bns. Ambulance would be a transport with negative VP value.

For a Ambulance bitmap, I would ask Mike if he would consider his Bus bitmap with Red Cross insignia loaned to this purpose...



Regimental Main Dressing Stations stood between the Dressing Stations and Divisional Field Hospitals.

Initially, each Division (later 2 per Bde) had one Field Hospital, where the wounded were transfered from Dressing Stations. A Field Hospital was operated by a Medical Coy of 8 Doctors, 3 Medical Platoons, and 3 Supplies Platoons. A Field Hospital had 150 to 200 beds, and had from 8 to 16 Ambulances. For the purposes of game scale, these would not fit in.

Those requiring extensive care where then transfered to Military Hospitals, inland. For the purposes of the scale, these would not fit in.

As for "Medics", here's the Medics Squad, one for each Coy, three per Bn. In order for them to have a visible effect in the game, I would have them simulate the morale boost of a level 2 commander.



For those who wish not to micro manage, the logical replacement would be a Medical Platoon per Bn. These would be equal to a level 3 commander.



My bitmaps are not much, I hope I can improve them a bit...


So, about the set up, what do you think?

Also, I would like to have help for the platoon files of each of these.

Dressing Stations
- Morale boost
- No command boost
- Transportable, cost 100AP
- No firing
- No spotting
- Negative VP value

Medic Sqd, Pltn
- Morale boost
- No command boost
- No firing
- No spotting
- Negative VP value

Ambulance would be like truck, only with negative value.
I would then ask if Jason would encrypt them for EF:FB, I could then have a version of one of the scenarios with these medical capabilites available for both sides.

[John Given]

OMG Battle Kat, you kick @ss! I love this - only a few days after the discussion started and this thing seems to be getting off the ground!

Everything you mentioned is awesome, only one thing I would like to mention;

You mentioned the field hospital is beyond the scope of the game, but in really large scenarios, I can imagine one on the map. would be similar in stats to a regimental hospital (main dressing station), but with a larger negative point value. Also, perhaps these division-level hospitals should be unmovable (like some supply depots), unlike the (barely) movable dressing stations.

Oh, also the ambulance should probably be flagged to carry infantry-class units only, and should probably be limited in max. strength points (two? three?) to represent that it would only be ferrying shot-up units.

Awesome post Battle Kat. Just made my day!

[Crossroads]

Well, you started it all. Great minds etc, eh

As for Field Hospitals, I was just thinking 24SP (right?) is a max one hex can accommodate, so there is no way to simulate a hospital of 150 beds. Say a hospital is 5SP, there'd be room for only 20 SP ie 10 squads ie some 60 men only.

Also I was thinking it is not worth transfering disrupt platoons too far from main lines?

But why not?