Moscow '42 balance opinions thus far?

[raizer]

rivers streams marsh

[Dog Soldier]

Liquid Sky and ComradeP do have it right as far as primary roads are concerned. From the manual...
When a unit moves in Travel Mode along a Primary Road using Road
Movement, then the Condition modifier is not applied and normal movement
costs as used.

So I stand corrected on that point about primary roads.

If you group units along a main road then you will minimize the loss of supply points between the nearest supply counter and your units. When I ran a check for storm and frozen ground it compared to the values for frozen and clear weather for units near or on the primary roads there was only a one point difference which would be some kind of rounding I suspect.

As soon as you look to units a short distance off the primary road net, the supply values change drastically.

If you group units along a primary road in the rear they will have the best chance to pull reinforcements. This is the point ComradeP is making. He is correct.

Where I differ in this assessment is the Germans do not have the ability to move large numbers of their units to such a place without compromising the defense of the front lines. The Russians should and will overwhelm such a thin defensive line.

Following this idea further, I can see there developing large fights along the primary road network as the Russians try to push down these important highways and the Germans try to block the them. German units off the primary road net are the prize if the Russians can crack German units near the primary roads or take control of key intersections.

It is my understanding that the game is working as it should since the actual campaign developed in just such a manner with desperate fights along the main arteries in the area and over key road junctions.

Now for the Germans to hold back the Russian infantry massed to push along a primary road, they too will have to mass some units. Units off the road network will be vulnerable to being overrun, even while retreating, especially in forests and vast open terrain. Russian cavalry & ski troops are well suited to move through the forests quickly enough to keep up with the Germans on foot. Russian armor can harass units in the open quite well.

The idea put forward by ComradeP that it will be easy to rotate these German units which are on the flanks of the primary road network roadblocks, is much harder in practice than he describes. There are not enough German units to double up everywhere with two units to prevent a break. Nor would this be a good idea as it would not allow very much rest (or replacement gathering) in such a fluid battle for the defender's units.

Dispatching units from the primary road 'rest areas' to rotate with troops defending in the hinterlands, will require several turns to reach the units that need relief. Perhaps as much as half a day or so. A lot can happen in that time if the unit requiring relief is under pressure.

To respond to the idea of reducing the supply along primary roads by a factor, that will require a separate algorithm to be written for such a specific new calculation. Taking weather effects into account under the current way the system works would result in negative supply values in the December Grand Campaign. The long distances coupled with 250% frozen or snow conditions (500% in storms) would cost a supply truck a drop of one supply point per hex traveled (two in snow). Currently primary roads drop one supply point every 12 hexes. A 12x increase in supply drop would reduce any units off the primary roads to zero supply.

A more modest penalty for supply on primary roads would seem possible, yet such a drop would still have a significant effect on units off the primary road net. They may even be rendered 'isolated' by having a zero local supply.

To clarify an earlier notion that German units receive loads of replacements in three days ignores the fact that disrupted German units do not receive replacements at all. The number of disrupted Germans units will increase every turn as is common for defending forces in PzC. That is not factored in at all in the earlier 'maximum' replacement values. I think the effect of being below 50 supply points and being disrupted will significantly lower those replacements received. Add the idea that precious few German units can be pulled from the front to group around a primary road 'rest area' and one will see that the theory of a fast rebuild of the German forces for a counter stroke is not going to happen on a large scale as suggested by ComradeP.

The Germans can rest & refit some parts of their entire force for short periods of time as mentioned before by Strela. This was what they actually did historically. But to claim they can do it on a grand scale and still hold the front without significant losses to their front line troops is not really possible in the game as it was not possible historically. The cost the competent Russian play will extract in such a case will, in the long run, win the game.

Dog Soldier