Random chatter...

[Jim von Krieg]

This would not be possible for a typical platoon of PzV... It was not one of my platoons but I am guessing this was one of morale 1 platoons which are common in this scenario- i.e. easy to kill by morale going to 0 when losses inflicted or retreated ( i.e. shot was reduced by 1 Eliminated -not possible for 5 step unit unless morale very low etc..).... I would be interested to learn what Earl has had in mind setting them up like this..

Well with EA on and high assault factor of Soviet SMG's it is a nightmare fro a commander of German side to plough through these infinite trench lines...

Welcome to Kursk Comrade Fascist Invader.. We've been preparing a long time for your arrival... LOL...

Low morale is to simulate the un-battle worthy nature of the Panther at this stage of its development. Also, crews were literally untrained on the tank as they drove into the fight.

I'm currently reading several books on Kursk and before the battle ever started the Germans were losing Panthers to mechanical failure/engine fires. I read a passage about the Panthers coming off the rail cars, receiving their combat loads, then literally crews driving into combat a few hours after that with only a few days training on the vehicle. That's bad military planning and execution which will definitely affect the combat worthiness of those units.

Based on discussion with Earl, this phenomenon is what I gathered he is attempting to simulate. One of the problems in this game is that mechanical reliability/crew training is not a factor; when in fact it was a huge factor in the early Panther and King Tigers.

I think its a good factor to include with the Panther Brigade otherwise this would be a useless exercise as the 200 Panthers would be impervious to the Russians. Even with a 1 morale, we still have to figure a way to disrupt or kill them. That is tough when the biggest threat to them are T34/43's and Il-2's. T34s are going to die in large quantities to kill a few Panthers with full morale or even with low morale. Il-2's can't seem to find an armored vehicle, preferring to shoot up the supporting infantry.

As to the SMG, you guys haven't really faced many of them yet. For the most part, you're digging out straight line infantry out of the trenches so far. Only now are you guys starting to run into them.

Both sides have their issues in this fight. Right now, Red Army is looking down the barrels of a heck of a lot of German armor with little ability to stop the hurricane that is ripping our troops to shreds. It's a proverbial meat grinder ala World War One.

Regards,

Jim

[PawelM]

Our crews untrained and equipment not battle worthy? This must be some new trick of the Soviet propaganda
Herr Goebels told is not to read this

On a serious side I think with the EA on and all the trenches there it is a good recipe for frustrating the German commanders...

[Von Earlmann]

[quote='

On a serious side I think with the EA on and all the trenches there it is a good recipe for frustrating the German commanders...
[/quote]

Just a quick explanation on the Panthers. I had to think about this for quite a while as altho there were 200 Panthers to start the battle by around day 2 there were less than 50 operational. I can't remember the exact numbers as my reference books are not here. They rarely had 20 in any one place. I think it was around 6 or 8 that caught fire and burned before they even reached the front. I did however want the German player to have a chance to see 200 Panthers so to replicate the unreliability of them I made a large number with morale of 1 and 2. I also set the reinforcement arrival of 1 regiment at 10%. They will still fire effectively but they will not stand up to close combat. It seems to be working as the German players can use them but run the risk of losing some large VPs. I know from the Russian side it is not a lot of fun watching a swarm of them advance on your front line :-).

I originally designed this with bunkers etc but with the advent of EA I changed everything to trenches.......also from reading an officers account of the battle he claimed that almost every clump of trees was a fortified position and even if it wasn't it had to be treated as one. We are early in the battle but as Jim said both sides had their problems and they seem to be replicating from history as best the game engine can.

It's still early but the battle looks to be going like it did historically. The Germans are struggling with the prepared works and the Russians are fighting for their lives.

VE

[Jim von Krieg]

At the end, the German push was too much for Pawel, but he made it tough all the way.

As I crested the ridge in strength using smoke to look down into the village, I was able to hammer exposed Red forces. As I look at the score, I had a Minor and pushed it to a Major with my last lunge; however, I know I can't sustain it as the swarm of T34s and other Red armor is waiting to counterattack.

I look at the point spread and will give Pawel the satisfaction... Out of my normal measured move, I make the pell mell tactical rush for the village, seizing two VP hexes. I can't go any farther and the Red rush will undo the Major, but I don't think he can knock it down to a draw so I'll give him lots to shoot at for his last turn.

Exposed with little OPFIRE, the Red counterattack really does a number on my strung out German troops. Panthers burn in the village as they are hammered by the wave of Russian tanks.

I came to this point because I moved too slow the entire time. It's easy to do with the "snow" movement slowing the attack at every turn.

Pawel and I are becoming an item as we duke it out in our Team Game at Kursk. We're also following up with "The Battle is Joined"...

He's a tough opponent to face... Looking forward to many future battles with him...

[Crossroads]

Just a quick explanation on the Panthers. I had to think about this for quite a while as altho there were 200 Panthers to start the battle by around day 2 there were less than 50 operational. I can't remember the exact numbers as my reference books are not here. They rarely had 20 in any one place. I think it was around 6 or 8 that caught fire and burned before they even reached the front. I did however want the German player to have a chance to see 200 Panthers so to replicate the unreliability of them I made a large number with morale of 1 and 2. I also set the reinforcement arrival of 1 regiment at 10%. They will still fire effectively but they will not stand up to close combat. It seems to be working as the German players can use them but run the risk of losing some large VPs. I know from the Russian side it is not a lot of fun watching a swarm of them advance on your front line :-).

Without having played this scenario, I think that's a creative solution to a problem as how to present green armored units into game.

Reminds me of the scenario "A Legend is Born", where green German panzer formations were represented by morale 5 units. Unfortunately, that did not work at all, as it is still possible to play really really aggressively with Morale 5 Panthers. At the end of the day they just plain annihilate any opposition they engage. That in turn results in a non-balanced scenario despite of the no doubt good intentions of the scenario designer to take into account the hapless behaviour of the German tanks at Arracourt. I've played both sides of what is otherwise an excellent and intriguing scenario with visibility of two, but it is unfortunately ruined by this aspect (and this aspect alone, I feel).

Now, with say Morale 2 Panthers and maybe Mk IVs too it could actually work out...

[Jim von Krieg]

I've ravaged the Canadian formations as we've Clashed by inflicting twice the casualties, but still the game hangs in the balance. Ever present, the Canadian artillery rakes my formation incessantly. I took a few unexpected moves to get out from under it, but Mike quickly adjusted fire and the ton of steel falls all around everything I do.

On my left, Fireflies have entered the fray as they catch a few of my more exposed panzers pulling back from slaughtering his fixed units. In the wake of Mike's attack, Canadian light tanks burn after scouting out several of my panzers that are now engulfed in flames from the 17lber packing Shermans. Of course, covering forces are never far away to exact a little pay back.

I've built a slight minor victory, but with his reinforcements in the game its going to be tough to sustain. Deja Vu, the wall of smoke re-appears. Not sure what's behind it, but my guess is waves of ground pounders with a few Fireflies moving to assault my forward VP hex on my right flank. Time to brace for an all out assault as his infantry probe through the tree line in advance of larger formations is mowed down and driven back. Mike's last foray in this area was a solo Sherman assault that was futile. I think I'm about to have a lot of Canadians over for dinner.

On my left, his infantry moves forward across the open ground. AMBUSH!!! His troops scatter under the wall of lead that engages them, then I pull back out of LOS. No open targets for his artillery to pound this turn. If he wants it, he's going to have to dig it out of the village. I'm hoping his units take a few turns to recover from their disruption.

Well, it looks like the Canadians have regrouped and are seeking out my troops once more. My attack has come to a screeching halt.

Jim

[PawelM]

At Kursk the gun salvos intensify...

167th infantry division is finding itself under heavy counterattack by endless waves of Russian infantry (not expected based on the reports delivered by OKW). 11 Panzer division just on its left created a foothold on the strategic crest between Dmetrovka and Cherkasskoye. With the help of GD it should be under German control soon... With GD making decisive push and 3rd Panzer arriving at the scene as we speak the offensive action of 48th Korps is gaining momentum

[Jim von Krieg]

At Kursk the gun salvos intensify...

167th infantry division is finding itself under heavy counterattack by endless waves of Russian infantry (not expected based on the reports delivered by OKW). 11 Panzer division just on its left created a foothold on the strategic crest between Dmetrovka and Cherkasskoye. With the help of GD it should be under German control soon... With GD making decisive push and 3rd Panzer arriving at the scene as we speak the offensive action of 48th Korps is gaining momentum

71st Guards Rifle Division is hereby recognized as a Hero Unit of the Soviet Union for its gallant defense of Cherkasskoye. Even now, elements of the division fight for their life under the overwhelming pressure from forces of the Fascist Invader.

Additionally, the 67th Guards Rifle Division is hereby recognized as a Hero Unit of the Soviet Union for its heroic counter-offensive to prevent the forces of the Fascist Invader from making gains in their sector.

[Jim von Krieg]

At Kursk the gun salvos intensify...

167th infantry division is finding itself under heavy counterattack by endless waves of Russian infantry (not expected based on the reports delivered by OKW). 11 Panzer division just on its left created a foothold on the strategic crest between Dmetrovka and Cherkasskoye. With the help of GD it should be under German control soon... With GD making decisive push and 3rd Panzer arriving at the scene as we speak the offensive action of 48th Korps is gaining momentum

71st Guards Rifle Division is hereby recognized as a Hero Unit of the Soviet Union for its gallant defense of Cherkasskoye. Even now, elements of the division fight for their life under the overwhelming pressure from forces of the Fascist Invader.

Additionally, the 67th Guards Rifle Division is hereby recognized as a Hero Unit of the Soviet Union for its heroic counter-offensive to prevent the forces of the Fascist Invader from making gains in their sector.

Our first line of defense has shattered on our right and in the center. Several of our front line regiments are pale shadows of their former strength.

Cherkasskoye has fallen, Novo Cherkasskoye will fall shortly. Our troops fought a terrific battle and fell defending the Motherland. All along the front we are slowly being pushed back by the irresistible waves of German armor and infantry. Rear guard actions erupt everywhere as the Red Army continues to fight the gray tidal wave.

So far we've been able to maintain a continuous front, but with our first defensive line broken, we teeter on the brink of disaster. Our forces fall back to the next line of resistance. Our reserves race to the front to attempt to stem the tide of the Fascist offensive.

In the center, a battle rages in Dmetrovka to hold the line, but the position is untenable as a large Panzer force to the west has flanked the position as it storms the large ridge to the northwest. Slowly, grudgingly the 90th Guards is forced back.

NKVD elements are looking for the commander of the rocket battery that was supporting the front. He is accused of treasonous and subversive misconduct in the tactical deployment of one of his batteries. It became vulnerable due to his collusion with the Fascists. Enemy Panthers destroyed the battery with long range fires from the high ground.

On the left, our counteroffensive has slowed the enemy advance. Yet, the pressure of the Fascist advance is tremendous and is beginning to inch forward as late arriving German tanks and SP guns tip the balance.

So far, the Kursk battle is a monsterous fight and the casualties on both sides are extremely steep.

Message from our Dear Comrade Stalin. Cherkasskoye has fallen! Salute to the brave defenders who gave their all for the Rodina. For those that remain in the path of the Fascist Invader, hold FAST comrades, the 1st and 5th Guards Tank Armies are on the way to throw back the vile foe.

[PawelM]

OKW brief from Kursk salient

48th Corps continues the advance. The enemy counter attack on our right flank was met with fiercely fighting infantry of 167th division. It is better to fight enemy in the open terrain than in the trenches. Therefore commander in charge pressed on with the attack in spite of waves of Soviets attacking from the high ground. Breakthrough by 11Panzer and GD in the centre has threatened Russian forces near Dmetrovka who have to withdraw or face encirclement....

Large numbers of Russian infantry are seen withdrawing along the whole front line