Some N 44 questions

[jonnymacbrown]

I've heard the Alt scenarios are more difficult for the Allies. True?
Also heard that Jison's map for N 44 has some inaccuracies? True?
jonny

[Volcano Man]

Well, N44_Alt was balanced to play out as a bit more historically difficult in the invasion period, so technically yes, it makes it a little more difficult for the Allies. It isn't impossible, but I was never happy about the basic game and how the US can totally overrun the Omaha sector and enter the bocage by the second day, for example. It is by no means easy for the Germans either though.

*Sigh* I have fond memories of N44, quite possible my most favorite PzC!

[Jison]

I've heard the Alt scenarios are more difficult for the Allies. True?
Also heard that Jison's map for N 44 has some inaccuracies? True?
jonny

I have never heard of any such inaccuracies. Can you be a bit more specific?

Jison

[jonnymacbrown]

I've heard the Alt scenarios are more difficult for the Allies. True?
Also heard that Jison's map for N 44 has some inaccuracies? True?
jonny

I have never heard of any such inaccuracies. Can you be a bit more specific?

Jison

I didn't get any specifics and looking at it, and thinking about it, I don't see how there could be any as it's just an overlay right? jonny

[Jison]

I've heard the Alt scenarios are more difficult for the Allies. True?
Also heard that Jison's map for N 44 has some inaccuracies? True?
jonny

I have never heard of any such inaccuracies. Can you be a bit more specific?

Jison

I didn't get any specifics and looking at it, and thinking about it, I don't see how there could be any as it's just an overlay right? jonny

Right, but there is always a risk I forget to include some terrain features or something. Never underestimate my ability to screw things up.


Jison

[jonnymacbrown]

I've heard the Alt scenarios are more difficult for the Allies. True?
Also heard that Jison's map for N 44 has some inaccuracies? True?
jonny

I have never heard of any such inaccuracies. Can you be a bit more specific?

Jison

I didn't get any specifics and looking at it, and thinking about it, I don't see how there could be any as it's just an overlay right? jonny

Right, but there is always a risk I forget to include some terrain features or something. Never underestimate my ability to screw things up.


Jison

Nobody's perfect. You do a really outstanding job Jison, thanks for all the time and effort. jonny

[Liquid_Sky]

Having played the alt game over 270 turns, we felt that the Germans can inflict much more damage on the allies then the allies can on the Axis. The Germans have lots of assault engineers that inflict over a hundred casualties per assault. They get hundreds of rocket artillery that are devastating, especially when you stockpile them. They get 90 afv panzer battalions that are protected by hundreds of aa guns.

Essentially it seems like a battle of attrition that favours the Axis over the allies.

As for the allies running fast inland...that only works to the Germans advantage as it spreads the allies thin, moves them away from their naval assets, and decreases an already poor level of supply....and allows German reinforcements to reach the front faster and with less interdiction.

[Volcano Man]

Wow, you paint quite the gloomy picture for the Allies. I don't exactly see it that way, having played the Allies myself. You are forgetting a couple of important factors here:

1) The Allies have TONS of effective air strikes, and these are available nearly constantly from start to finish, while the Germans have nearly nothing.

2) The Allies have an massive abundance of artillery (and naval) support, where the Germans do not. Rocket artillery is nice, as you mentioned, but it isn't a huge advantage given their other gun shortages.

3) Also, have you played it lately? You mention attrition, but in the latest version the Allies use the new replacements feature (and recovery), whereas the Germans only get 1% recovery. This is to deal with the whole, quality vs. quantity attritional aspect of course.

----------------

My comment about the Allies steam rolling the invasion beaches in the standard game is not a detriment to the Allies, rather, it is a true problem with the standard campaign IMO. I must of played the original campaign at least eight times over the years (both sides), and the point is that the Allies can surge forward and plant themselves. The Germans then have no hope of opposing the defensive position as the Allies start reinforcing themselves (sure they might meet with some success in local counter attacks), but the point is that the Allies end up weeks ahead of the historical schedule, which only serves to accelerate the inevitable Allied victory. The Germans need to be able to contest the initial beaches and areas immediately behind them in the first days, otherwise they loose too much ground to make a difference. In the Omaha sector it was especially bad, because the US could get off the beach and push beyond it on the first day, and the Germans didn't have enough in the area to effectively hold beyond that, especially since the non-bocage terrain was so weak in the standard game. This all added up to the disappointing realization that the Germans stood a better chance there if they just immediately fled south to the bocage, giving up about 20 km of territory in order to seek cover from relentless allied airstrikes on units located in the (virtual) open terrain. The Alt scenarios have striven to make the villages and farm fields (and all non-clear terrain in general) very defensive terrain types (and slower terrain types for that matter) to discourage this a-historical chain of events.

In any case, that isn't saying that N44_Alt doesn't have flaws as well, but in my view it is the lesser of two evils. ;) To each his own...

[jonnymacbrown]

Having played the alt game over 270 turns, we felt that the Germans can inflict much more damage on the allies then the allies can on the Axis. The Germans have lots of assault engineers that inflict over a hundred casualties per assault. They get hundreds of rocket artillery that are devastating, especially when you stockpile them. They get 90 afv panzer battalions that are protected by hundreds of aa guns.

Essentially it seems like a battle of attrition that favours the Axis over the allies.

As for the allies running fast inland...that only works to the Germans advantage as it spreads the allies thin, moves them away from their naval assets, and decreases an already poor level of supply....and allows German reinforcements to reach the front faster and with less interdiction.

Any way to take a look at the 270 turn position?

[Liquid_Sky]

Its a rather big file so I will post it as a link:

http://imgur.com/xTjHlCp

The turn is 257 (not 270, I was going from dim memory). Essentially, the allies started to break through all over the place, so I retreated to the bocage line and dug in, just in time for the storm.

Over the next few days of storm, combat was essentially nil as I was dug in 90% terrain, and combat strength is halved.

After the storm ends, you have some powerful German formations showing (or showed) up. 9th and 10th SS. 12th SS. Panzer Lehr. 21st Panzer. 1st and 2nd SS. Which I threw into a grand offensive against the British. (and a little bit against the americans).

I used the 2nd Panzer to anchor the left flank.

All those empty trenches you see is where the front line used to be, as I pushed him back over the course of several days. I would pull fatigued units back to rest (which also improves their combat strength as they get back replacements/reinforcements).

I had earlier kicked the british paratroopers back over the canal with the 21st Panzer.

Some things I noticed. The Germans have a lot of flak. A LOT. You can make some areas of the front immune to allied air attack.

The germans have much better assault values (with the elite units), which means if you put full stacking in a hex, you can take his full stacking and inflict tons of casualties.