SP:WaW vs SP:WW2

[Compass Rose]

Could someone please tell me what the difference is between SP:WaW and SP:WW2?

I know WaW is from Matrix and WW2 is from Shrapnel Games. Other than that, they look like the same game.

Thanks

[Vesku]

Could someone please tell me what the difference is between SP:WaW and SP:WW2?

I know WaW is from Matrix and WW2 is from Shrapnel Games. Other than that, they look like the same game.

Thanks

It's been years since I played WaW but it has more movement points per turn, arty falls quicker and there's command control. It looks like the same game but plays quite differently.

[Compass Rose]

If I was to start trying to learn and play one of the WWII games, which one would you suggest; WaW or WW2? Is one better than the other for PBEM games or playing against the AI? Also, are both still supported?

Thanks

[Cross]

I recommend WinSPWW2.
SPWW2 is better for PBEM and against AI.

WinSPWW2 is still supported. See here:
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/forumdisplay.php?f=139

Here's some of the differences:

Windows compatible
SPWaW: Not Windows compatible
SPWW2: Full Windows compatibility

Screen size
SPWaW: 800x600 (full screen only)
SPWW2: Up to 1600x1200 or 1920x1080 (paid version)
SPWW2: Windowed or Full Screen

Map Size
SPWaW: 240x100 hexes (12x5 KM: 60sqKM)
SPWW2: 200x160 hexes (10x8 KM: 80sqKM)

Hill Levels
SPWaW: 3 hill levels
SPWW2: 15 hill levels

Zoom Levels (map magnification)
SPWaW: 5
SPWW2: 6

Maximum Units
That a player can deploy in a battle.
SPWAW: 400 units
SPWW2: 500 units

Maximum Formations
That a player can deploy in a battle.
SPWAW: 100 formations
SPWW2: 200 formations

Maximum Game Turns
SPWAW: 60
SPWW2: 90

Infantry Uniform Colours
SPWaW has 4 infantry uniform colours
SPWW2 has 5 infantry uniform colours (6 if you include snow camo mods)

Nations Available (OOB Breadth)
SPWaW: 27 OOB
SPWW2: 36 OOB

OOB Depth (unit choices)
SPWaW: German OOB: 260 units
SPWW2: German OOB: 980 units

Credit to Alby, Panzer Leo and others who have done some excellent OOB mods for SPWaW

Unit Classes
SPWaW: 113
SPWW2: 255

Sounds
SPWaW: 600
SPWW2: 150

This is one area where SPWaW is superior to SPWW2.
The SPWaW sound engine has better quality and a greater variety of sounds.

There is a SPWW2 sound mod which improves the quality of the SPWW2 sounds; and many of these sounds are better quality than the SPWaW sounds, but the mod is still only 150 sounds.

Artillery
SPWaW: Arty falls at end of own turn
SPWW2: Arty falls after opponent has moved

The artillery routine in SPWW2 is far less gamey.
SPWaW unrealistically allows you to adjust artillery onto fast moving vehicles.

Armour
SPWaW: mm
SPWW2: cm

SPWaW measures armour in mm instead of the cm used by SPWW2.
This really makes no difference to combat resolution results.
SPWaW models low penetration weapons (like Anti-Tank rifles) against light armour (5mm to 10mm) with more specificity.

Opportunity Fire
SPWW2: Unloading units attract ‘opportunity fire’
SPWW2: Opportunity fire filter (paid version)
SPWaW: Humans choose when/if to op-fire against AI

The SPWW2 ‘Opportunity fire filter' allows ATk guns (eg.) to choose target and range.
Although SPWaW players can choose when/if to op-fire against the AI, but some point out this gives human players an unfair advantage over the AI.

Misc Unique Features
SPWW2: PBEM Campaigns for 2 human players (paid version)
SPWW2: Shoot through smoke/ non-line of sight area fire
SPWW2: Paratroops draw ground fire while descending
SPWW2: Motorcycle troops can dismount and fight
SPWW2: Reversing Tanks
SPWW2: Infantry can attempt to take cover at end of move
SPWW2: Move points to load/unload infantry from vehicles, ends gamey relay tactics
SPWW2: Choose rally/retreat direction
SPWW2: Blast circle option
SPWW2: Timed objectives
SPWW2: Guns/vehicles parachute separately from crews
SPWW2: Company/formation identity numbers (paid version)
SPWW2: Snow camo for vehicles
SPWW2: Snowmobile movement class

SPWaW: Command Control (limits orders each turn)
SPWaW: Suspension damage
SPWaW: Weather (may restrict visibility and movement)
SPWaW: Time of Day (may restrict visibility)
SPWaW: * spidy sense (SPWaW weakness, fixed in SPWaW Enhanced)
SPWaW: Teleporting infiltrators (SPWaW weakness)
SPWaW: Numeric indication of number of men over squad/section
SPWaW: Reduced (not full strength) squads/sections option

Misc Superiority
SPWW2: Location specific map generation (SPWW2 is better)
SPWW2: AI sophistication (SPWW2 is better)
SPWW2: Ammo re-supply realism (SPWW2 is better)
SPWW2: PBEM security (SPWW2 has additional security level)

[Cross]

This may also help you understand the difference:

[Compass Rose]

Wow, thanks for all of the helpful info.

I am use to playing my war games with 2D counters. Can WW2 be played with 2D counters also?

From a learning curve stand point, which would be easier to learn, for a newbie, WW2 or MBT?

Thanks Again.

[Cross]

Wow, thanks for all of the helpful info.

I am use to playing my war games with 2D counters. Can WW2 be played with 2D counters also?

From a learning curve stand point, which would be easier to learn, for a newbie, WW2 or MBT?

Thanks Again.

SPWW2 uses icons instead of counters. I think someone made a mod to replace the icons with counters, but that was years ago and is no longer available.

Usually (a few rare exceptions) a vehicle icon represents one vehicle. Infantry squad icons typically show exactly how many men are in that squad, and as they take casualties the icon reduces the men. However, cavalry, MG and gun crews are more generic, and do not show exactly the number of men.

I would say that WW2 would be a bit easier to learn, as MBT has helicopters, missiles and a few other weapon systems that would require a slightly longer learning curve.

[Compass Rose]

OK thanks Cross!

Greatly appreciate all of the helpful input.

[Cross]

No problem.

One thing that may help is this quick reference sheet I put together a few years ago:

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=41860

It's missing one or two recent updates (like the infantry take cover option) but has all the essentials.

[Weasel]

SPWAW is DOS based, the other windows