The Competition & Teaser Thread

[Strela]

David, what sort of evidence would it take to revise Sov moral ratings? Several books by Sov generals and some accounts from some Sov soldiers, as have been cited for the Germans?

You ever regret posting something?

Whether the justification Ed gave was correct on not, this was from one of the early Alt scenarios (Smolensk '41). Since then we have used these values and tested them as I said against historical outcomes in multiple games.

If you want to focus on the 'justification' go for it, but as others have pointed out here morale values don't just rate the individual soldier, they take into account the infrastructure and other factors an army operates in.

You want the values changed? All you need to do is give me your recommended values and I'll put them in and play a few scenarios. If the end result is closer to the historical than the current results then you might have a case.



For all those worried about people changing OB's etc. There has been new anti-cheating feature included in game. John Tiller confirmed there is a new game file checksum feature that deters changes to game files in an encrypted PBEM game. This will tell you when you load a file if there has been any changes to the files that the game was started with.

David

[GerryM]

Hello David:

Thanks for communicating so much with us.

You mentioned the system checking if there was a change in parameters after the game started. I assume the system also checks that the 2 players in a PBEM both start with the same parameters?

Gerry

[76mm]

You ever regret posting something?

Actually this is kind of my point. I don't mean to give you a hard time, I actually appreciate the enormous amount of research and consideration which has gone into your games, and don't think that you have any pro-German bias. Ultimately I would probably agree with your conclusions (although first I'd have to see how the balance of German units are rated as well).

But I think you're doing yourself a great disservice by quoting that twaddle as a justification for your settings. If it seems that I'm over-reacting a bit, I've been reading alot about the East Front lately and the repeated references by Germans about the "bestial" and "subhuman" Sovs have obviously gotten under my skin (and just to clarify--I'm not even Russian).

As one of the other posters suggested, maybe just state that the ratings reflect your evaluation of the aggregate capabilities of the Sov manpower, equipment, tactics, and leadership, and leave it at that...

[Xaver]

Thanks for the pics, i find a little strange see the Sdkfz 222 in units of 6 and 88s in units of 4 guns... apart this great job, i am now interested in see regular german infantry units... specially in the divisional aufk battalion and well see in soviets the airborne divisions hehehe.

PDF with visual OOBs??? give me 2 please!!! this could be an interesting new file in documentation, maybe here OOB guys can tell us the sleepless nights thinking in "split or not split support weapons, thats the question"

Well, i never think on this but i allways have in mind that 2 players playing same scenario with diferent OOBs or doesnt work or when you have some turns played file crash... maybe here improve tools to edit scens is a good solution, if people can create fast scenrios with diferent OOB values... in other post i say improve scen editor to open a scen and change the OOB and PDT files used on it but improve a little more OOB editor is a good option to, why not an option where you can change in all OOB certain values??? i think in a dialog where you can change in OOB experience in all units with a simple click, example:

76mm wants made guards B and regular soviet units C, he goes to "full values change" he select in the dialog the nation where he wants apply change, then appear a serie of boxes called "old value" and other "new value" for diferent unit values (quality, hard attack, hard attack range etc etc) he write in quality section in old box "C" and in new "B", the idea is that when you apply change in he OOB for certain nation you change in an operation quality in a nation, C value become B and same to change hard attack values, ranges... when you finish editing OOB "save as" you give it a new name and you have in seconds a new OOB and if you want change more things you need minutes and is harder miss an unit where you dont change the values (editing an OOB i see it a lot of times to find a bug in an unit value when was in the middle of a game ).

A little question about the anticheat features... this affect to saves??? i allways save a lot of times in my turns after any movement... i have this bad practice in games hehehe.

Well, i dont expect game next week because you are doing final test, maybe we need wait 2 weeks but i have all my hopes in the last week of february, remember

[Strela]

Hello David:

Thanks for communicating so much with us.

You mentioned the system checking if there was a change in parameters after the game started. I assume the system also checks that the 2 players in a PBEM both start with the same parameters?

Gerry

Gerry,

As one player starts the game and then sends the file all appropriate settings are encrypted in the game file. If those are varied subsequently the player(s) are told which file has been changed. The values should all start aligned.


76mm,

Thanks for your commentary. I am PR trained in my day job and am usually good at handling controversial topics..... probably a D (morale) rating for this one!


David

[rzhev42]

Xaver wrote

Thanks for the pics, i find a little strange see the Sdkfz 222 in units of 6 and 88s in units of 4 guns... apart this great job, i am now interested in see regular german infantry units... specially in the divisional aufk battalion and well see in soviets the airborne divisions hehehe

For the Sdkfz's in the Aufk-Abt:

From KstN 1162 (1-11-41) 3 lt zugs each with 4 Sdkfz 222 and 2 Sdkfz 223. These where divided into 2 sections (squads) with 2 Sdkfz 222 and 1 Sdkfz 223. We decided to keep it as a platoon and make them all Sdkfz 222 even though that does give the 2 radio ACs the same rating as the 222's. Dividing them into 4 and 2 respectively still would not have been correct and to make them correct the 1 platoon would have become 4 units. Just a design decision when a Panzer Div has over 200 units and the Aufk-Abt has more then 25 units.

As for the 8.8cm Flak, from KstN 1711 "Heeres Flakbatterie 8.8cm", the battery (company) consists of 1 firing platoon of 4 8.8cm guns, and 1 firing platoon of 3 2cm guns.


Michael

[Xaver]

Thanks for the reply rzhev42, maybe my surprise is more in the scout units because now they have a bigger value compared with PzC and is more profitable for player has smaller scout units based in vehicles (infantry scouts are harder to use and more vulnerable, everybody can hit them hehehe).

With 18x222 and 6x223 is hard divide them (6x4 is an option but 2x12 is maybe 3x8 but is high to) because or you have as lower unit 2 vehicles but this increase a lot subunits or you have bigger units but less flexibility to scout and less terrain to cover or oposite, more vehicles to cover less terrain... well in PzB 01 looks harder to use smaller units because are a ton of vehicles/tanks but in other battles with lower numbers of vehicles/tanks... i think in certain battles with sand, tea pots, paste and somebody called Jerry... maybe Jerry Lewis???

88s... well they are very valuable AT units and are in the same situation as scouts, in the end is not a great problem because there is not a great diference between have 2x2 with an hex between them than have all in same hex.

Is impossible make everyone happy or at least 100% happy.

All this info could be a great add in a future OOB document, with pics like hte one you post here and some notes from OOB designers.

Great job, waiting is hard, but the reward is high

PD: something i dont remember ask, in recon spotting or spot value in units... the unit size has some influence in the success of recon/spot??? 4 vehicles spot same as 6 vehicles??? thanks.

[Strela]

PD: something i dont remember ask, in recon spotting or spot value in units... the unit size has some influence in the success of recon/spot??? 4 vehicles spot same as 6 vehicles??? thanks.

From post #327 from memory...


Firstly, here is the definition of Recon Spotting;

With one or more recon units selected, this command will attempt to spot enemy units within the Line-of-Sight of the selected units at the cost of 1/3 of the movement allowance of the units. The probability of spotting the enemy units will depend on the distance from the recon unit to the enemy unit, the terrain that the enemy unit is in, the strength of the recon unit, and its quality and fatigue.

So line of sight is required and nothing is guaranteed. Importantly the action of Recon Spotting will usually reveal the Recon unit. If a player has left a recon unit forward to observe it is better to adjust its ratings to 'Never' for all categories to prevent it firing and revealing itself.

The other important point is that units are only hidden if they are in 'cover'. Finding cover is not always as easy as you'd expect and it's harder the more units you're trying to conceal.

David

[ComradeP]

David, is the morale check for disruption mechanic the same as in PzC? I just realized that the larger number of units would not only create a greater degree of variability in combat results (good) but also potentially a (slightly) higher chance that a unit is disrupted.

Have the playtesters noticed an increase in the chance that the D quality Soviet units disrupt due to there being more German units firing at them?

[Strela]

.... i am now interested in see regular german infantry units... specially in the divisional aufk battalion and well see in soviets the airborne divisions hehehe.

Again these are very work in progress, we could change lots of things as well as the backgrounds, but this will give you an idea on the German infantry.

Thanks to Mike who has dived into this with gusto while learning a new paint program!!







David