The Competition & Teaser Thread

[Richie61]

Panzer Battles UI is better though

Better than what? PzC I am guessing.

While we're talking about interface changes, I hope they consider more hotkeys, and customization.

I 200% agree with that these games need more hotkeys!!!

[ComradeP]

Do you have Nipes BMSteel book?

Unfortunately, no. I have Robin Cross' book on the battle of Kursk and various German books covering operations of Army Group South, but no very detailed German book at the moment.

The Prokhorovka-Pokrovka railroad might be post-war, some of the RKKA maps depict it as being there but those might be post-war. The railroad also stops in the middle of nowhere after Pokrovka. The maps that were presumably drawn shortly after the battle don't show it.

I guess if it's an early counterattack, the Guards Tank Corps could still be the 2nd and 5th, as the 5th was pushed east by the SS. Exactly how or why they managed to then move across or north of the German route of advance to 1st Tank Army isn't clear to me at the moment.

Start of the German offensive in the south from the Soviet perspective:

The capital Western-style M indicates a mechanized unit, the "m" (or t) indicates a tank unit.

The reverse S and the...pretzel in front of the unit's size indication after its number indicate a Guards unit.



Later days:



Hmm, you might be right after all.

This map is titled "situation on the beginning of the 8th and planned counterblow of the front"



This is the end of the day map for the 8th:



Note that Teterevino is held only by a Guards Rifle Regiment, the 158th, of the 51st Guards Rifle Division. The 23rd Guards Rifle Corps of 6th Guards Army, which the formation belonged to, was probably one of the hardest hit formations during Zitadelle as it was hit by the full force of II SS Panzer Korps.

The 93rd Guards Rifle is in the south, the Cyrillic either says in Russian that it changes to 2nd Guards Tank Corps or that it replaces 2nd Guards Tank Corps, but that is less likely.

German sources only mention limited counterattacks that didn't really get anywhere or were scattered/shattered by the Luftwaffe.

How did I not see those maps the first time I browsed through the maps you ask? Well, to quote the laws of anime: "People never notice the little things, like missing body parts, or wounds the size of Seattle."

[Xaver]

I dont see a bad idea a video to show in a mix movements, arrows, detection and how is the delay in action... one of the things i really dislike in Tiller games (specially in PzC) is the time you need wait between shoot and see the on map result.

Ummm talking now about delay... when you see enemy turn resolution (VS AI or VS human) there is a lot of delay for movements made out of your spot range??? i refer that many times in big battles you lose a lot of time waiting for movements out of your vision range when see a turn replay, if you cant see the enemy movements well, skip them fast is a good point, i know the fast AI option but with this you lose the important things, i allways want see an extra fast AI mode where you can apply fast action to undetected enemy movements but regular time resolution when you see firefights, assaults or enemy movements that you detect this sure do a lot less turn replays.

I start to think that the mission of this thread is troll Comrade P and made him lose his mind... competition is more to see who say the date where Comrade P start to wear a hat and shouting like Napoleon that Wellington is a bad general and this affair is nothing more than eating breakfast

ComradeP, i think more in the other well know anime law translated to wargames "Scens never are large enough even when you cant deal with them or they can asphyxiate you under their size"

[Strela]

Will there be a display of visible hexes like in the Campaign Series?

You mean like this? View taken from the flak units down slope.

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Do you have Nipes BMSteel book?

I have to say, I am enjoying the Hell out of this thread,too bad we didn't have something like this going on the blitz all the time.This is the best thread since the Great 88mm AT debate back in the T"41 / Glenn Saunders day.
Strela and crew must be laughing their bags off...

Not quite laughing our bags off, but enjoying the research and sleuthing. You're all moving from educated guesses to educated!!

Nipe's book would be a boon though!

I have another Corp level screen shot to put up, but we're getting so much value out of the last one, I'm delaying it!

Hopefully, it won't be quite so much of a conundrum....

David

Ps It's great credit to be put in the same bucket as the 'Great 88mm AT thread'!!!!

[Kuriltai]

German sources only mention limited counterattacks that didn't really get anywhere or were scattered/shattered by the Luftwaffe.

FWIW...Glantz states LAH claimed 80 kills out of 120 total SSPzK kills for the day.That leaves only 40 tank kills on the frontage of the scenario.Wonder what the Luftwaffe claimed as they played a big part in breaking up the attack ,again,according to Glantz.Be interesting to see how the Airpower works in PzB.

I have another Corp level screen shot to put up, but we're getting so much value out of the last one, I'm delaying it!

Bring it on!

It's great credit to be put in the same bucket as the 'Great 88mm AT thread'!!!!

You remember that one? It's going back quite a while.You would have to ask Volcano Man,but I think he started the Alt scenario's and values around then.

[Xaver]

Thanks for the pic Strela.

A pair of questions.

1-barbed wire... how it works??? i refer if you need more action points to enter in a hex with barbed wire, like in other games, but when you enter in the hex the barbed wire enter in "open" status??? i refer is possible pass it without the extra points penalty after an unit enter in the hex or not??? and how do you remove them??? only engineer units can do it or any unit can do it???

2-bunkers/pillboxes... they have some kind of impact in vision range??? i think if they count like lets see 4 vehicles destroyed in vision and movement in travel mode effect, you know a "heavy defense area" not only have bunkers and pillboxes, comunication trenches and other works to cover blind points, this things impact in units movement at least.

I dont remember very well how work this in SQB i dont play the serie a lot.

Strela, dont be cruel with ComradeP, give him a new "bone" he needs disconect from the damn diabolical image

PD: one day more and we can start the final countdown

[Many Mariuses]

Any chance that Panzer Battles type graphics will be integrated into the Panzer Campaign series in the future?

[ComradeP]

It's weird that the area was pinpointed fairly early on, but that we could only match the dispositions to a map now as every map seems to give different dispositions. I guess the violence with which 6th Guards Army was pushed out of the way made detailed estimates or specifications of where everybody was difficult.

Until 5th Guards Tank Army arrived, there was a real threat of a German breakthrough (in the operational sense, not saying it would've decided the battle) as the Soviet defensive positions were no longer mutually supporting.

Well David, I think we're ready for the next one, after I spent the last roughly 20 pages making every kind of guess but the right one until Kuriltai lit the path to the right answer.

Edit: nevermind, confused the trench graphic with the barbed wire one.

[Tide1]

Here you go gents

Obstacle hexes cost the full movement allowance of units to enter,
but cause no casualties.
Barbwire included

[Kuriltai]

It's weird that the area was pinpointed fairly early on, but that we could only match the dispositions to a map now as every map seems to give different dispositions. I guess the violence with which 6th Guards Army was pushed out of the way made detailed estimates or specifications of where everybody was difficult.

The RR graphic and our thinking that the OOB screenshots had something to do with it was what took us so long.Other-wise we were all over that sucker.
That's my story and I'm sticking with it.

I highly recommend the Nipe book.It's big$$ but some new conclusions and great maps.In spite of the title,covers 48PzC and 3PzC as well.If I had a choice between Glantz and Nipe,I would take Nipe.(Can't say that very often).