Bolt out of the Blue 5.3

[Aaron]

Well you can always have that as a house rule for any game you start.

On the WP strategy again someone mentioned that there's less strategy's overall that fire and yes you are correct but overall the WP has more options now even though there's less strategys. The whole of the 20th and 1st Tank Armies are completely free to attack at any point on the front its assigned to and for the 5th and 7th tank army you can also attack at any point on the front that you pick for them after you choose one in the Strategy, so in the end theres much more control.

As for the 4 MRD divisions that come after the 5th and 7th army strategy fires these are replacement divisions for any army you choose, this is why they show up at 2200..... So at 0000 you can attach them to whatever army you want to reinforce.

The SF strategys are gone but again theres alot more variable in those units now and nothing will ever be the same with them in each game you play. For one they have a 33%-20% chance to show up so you dont know what turn and then the scatter for them is set at 20 so they could show up anywhere in a 40 hex circle and third they deploy by helo so they will take causalties and some of them might land on an enemy unit and get wiped out so all in all you cant make any exact plan for these units in any game you play.

Aaron

[Aaron]

Surprise.... 5.3 is posted

1. Removed the 20.Pulk Artylerii Ppanc from the map and put as reinforcement
2. Added small supply hexs on Soviet airborne drop zones
3. More adjustments to WP war organization
4. Removed American Ranger strategy. What was the point of having it when they are airmobile
5. Added a CAN AB BN strategy. They are on foot
6. More reorg of SF and Spets and deployment/strategy changes (2 new strategys for WP)
7. MOT units can no longer drive through Marshes
8. Some Northag forces get fixed and releases added, Brit 3rd ARM and German 7th Pz
9. Various other adjustments to Nato deployments and releases, set to take longer to release/reinforce
10. Raised WP Nuke Factor in the .pdt from 35 to 40 which is the same as Nato
11. SSMs now have HA and SA values

Ive said it before but this will be the last update for a LONG while unless theres some kinda bug, ive got a plate full of other things to do. Overall this update finishes what i started with the WP war organization and deployment/organization of Spetsnaz and swings the balance a little more towards the WP with the slowdown of some Nato reinforcements and releases

[Elxaime]

On the SSMs, I assume this means they now can be used like super long ranged artillery? Not having seen the values, can't fully comment but just curious - why the change?

If they have decent HA and SA values this may be a pretty big deal.

[Aaron]

On the SSMs, I assume this means they now can be used like super long ranged artillery? Not having seen the values, can't fully comment but just curious - why the change?

If they have decent HA and SA values this may be a pretty big deal.

During my studys of WP war org and tactics they yes would have been used as deep strike, 4500kg HE SS-23, off the top of my head, 4700kg on the SS-21. Of course early on would most likely be used on airfields and communications but in the end they would have been used on the front, thats the reason every WP division had a Bn of 4 assigned to the division. Of course 4 is to small following my law of 8 and 4 would not do a whole lot of damage but i did add ALL Army and Front level Bdes.

Scud, HA 6 SA 9
SS-21 and SS-23 15 HA 18 SA

will not make a big difference in the game as half are scuds with a slow fire rate and inaccurate.

The biggest changes are the finishing of WP war org and Spetsnaz making things uneasy for the Nato player in the rear plus the addition of the Soviet airborne supply hexs will let more divisions drop on first turn to add to the chaos.

[Elxaime]

On the SSMs, I assume this means they now can be used like super long ranged artillery? Not having seen the values, can't fully comment but just curious - why the change?

If they have decent HA and SA values this may be a pretty big deal.

During my studys of WP war org and tactics they yes would have been used as deep strike, 4500kg HE SS-23, off the top of my head, 4700kg on the SS-21. Of course early on would most likely be used on airfields and communications but in the end they would have been used on the front, thats the reason every WP division had a Bn of 4 assigned to the division. Of course 4 is to small following my law of 8 and 4 would not do a whole lot of damage but i did add ALL Army and Front level Bdes.

Scud, HA 6 SA 9
SS-21 and SS-23 15 HA 18 SA

will not make a big difference in the game as half are scuds with a slow fire rate and inaccurate.

The biggest changes are the finishing of WP war org and Spetsnaz making things uneasy for the Nato player in the rear plus the addition of the Soviet airborne supply hexs will let more divisions drop on first turn to add to the chaos.

Some further thoughts:

1. Had you given any weight to an Explicit Supply version of Bolt? The reason I ask is that airborne supply works more elegantly with explicit supply. The permanent supply hexes help with initial drops, but can become somewhat peculiar later on, acting as potential "islands" where surrounding forces can avoid isolation. Of course, the permanent supply points NATO has in many cities do the same thing, but generally that is considered a necessary trade-off. Explicit supply is a bunch more units, granted...

2. Given the idea of creating havoc in the NATO rear, I am wondering if the NATO interior ministry and police units need further representation. The reason I ask is that presently a Pact 100 man Spetznaz unit can take over a major West German city in many places without opposition unless a regular army unit is sent that way. These tiny units running rampant can play even more havoc now with the SSM fire they can bring to bear...

3. Speaking further of SSM's, wouldn't their entry into conventional combat calculations also implicate other assets tasked to their destruction, such as medium range NATO fighter bombers like the F111 and even heavier aircraft like the B52?

I realize this is the ultimate update, so these questions are more for historical value. There are so many imponderables about how this war would have played out that we will never have a final answer.

Thanks again for a great mod.

[Aaron]

On the SSMs, I assume this means they now can be used like super long ranged artillery? Not having seen the values, can't fully comment but just curious - why the change?

If they have decent HA and SA values this may be a pretty big deal.

During my studys of WP war org and tactics they yes would have been used as deep strike, 4500kg HE SS-23, off the top of my head, 4700kg on the SS-21. Of course early on would most likely be used on airfields and communications but in the end they would have been used on the front, thats the reason every WP division had a Bn of 4 assigned to the division. Of course 4 is to small following my law of 8 and 4 would not do a whole lot of damage but i did add ALL Army and Front level Bdes.

Scud, HA 6 SA 9
SS-21 and SS-23 15 HA 18 SA

will not make a big difference in the game as half are scuds with a slow fire rate and inaccurate.

The biggest changes are the finishing of WP war org and Spetsnaz making things uneasy for the Nato player in the rear plus the addition of the Soviet airborne supply hexs will let more divisions drop on first turn to add to the chaos.

Some further thoughts:

1. Had you given any weight to an Explicit Supply version of Bolt? The reason I ask is that airborne supply works more elegantly with explicit supply. The permanent supply hexes help with initial drops, but can become somewhat peculiar later on, acting as potential "islands" where surrounding forces can avoid isolation. Of course, the permanent supply points NATO has in many cities do the same thing, but generally that is considered a necessary trade-off. Explicit supply is a bunch more units, granted...

No, alot of work on my end to just make that happen and then ur adding all those units to the oob which adds even more time to the turns, instead of taking 3 hours to take your turn ull be taking 4 because u gotta move your suppy units. Just think of those supply hexs as aerial resupply either by plane or helo

2. Given the idea of creating havoc in the NATO rear, I am wondering if the NATO interior ministry and police units need further representation. The reason I ask is that presently a Pact 100 man Spetznaz unit can take over a major West German city in many places without opposition unless a regular army unit is sent that way. These tiny units running rampant can play even more havoc now with the SSM fire they can bring to bear...

Problem here is if you add them then u gotta add there EGerman counterpart and what are you really getting out of adding 200 units to the map on top of grid lock it will cause. In the case of SF units overall its hard to portray them in this game besides deploying them into deception mode. Most would have operated in small 4 to 15 man units and we cant do that just because of the amount of units it would add so we have company sized units that portray there operational area which is its deception range of 4 hexs. On top of that ive added some various other types off Spetsnaz to try to show what they could do within the game mechanics but the biggest problem is there to easy to kill, there only way of escape is to go into deception mode and it real life they wouldnt have been so easy to kill but here we can corner a whole company and wipe them out and that just wouldnt have happened IRL so by adding more units to stop them i dont think it would be fair to these units who are already handicapped. When they take a VP hex in a city i really dont see them as capturing the city just a city block as they really do not control anything and there easy to get rid of.

3. Speaking further of SSM's, wouldn't their entry into conventional combat calculations also implicate other assets tasked to their destruction, such as medium range NATO fighter bombers like the F111 and even heavier aircraft like the B52?

i mentioned above theres not many of these units and because they are units of 8 and 12 also takes away from the damage they do because they are not units of 18 or 24. As far as more assets, B52 is a strategic weapon and F111 more on the interdiction side of things which even though there isnt a F111 unit they are still in the game as interdiction happens and if they interdict a SSM unit well we all know what happens to light MOT vehicles plus now that SSMs can fire conventionally theres that small chance they can be spotted and fired opon themselves.

I realize this is the ultimate update, so these questions are more for historical value. There are so many imponderables about how this war would have played out that we will never have a final answer.

i myself dont think Nato airforces would have played a major roll on the frontlines, they would have had there handsfull just trying to get air superiority and interdiction when they can. The shear numbers of Pact aircraft even in alot of cases inferior it comes down to do would you what 24 F15s or 72 Mig21s.

Thanks again for a great mod.

[/b]Sorry if my reply seems chopped up its been written in 8 different phases now and i cant even remember whats at the top[b]

[tbridges]

Could any of these v5.3 tweaks be introduced to an ongoing game of Bolt v5.2 using the HPS editors? So we could take advantage of some of the updates without having to restart our game?

[Aaron]

Could any of these v5.3 tweaks be introduced to an ongoing game of Bolt v5.2 using the HPS editors? So we could take advantage of some of the updates without having to restart our game?

The SSM values and the nuke value in the pdt can be changed, just make sure you both change the files on each cpu. Just doing it on yours would have you with the new values and him with the old. Thats about all, everything else would have to be a restart since it effects or starts from turn 1.

Aaron

[Elxaime]

One more small question that has puzzled me for awhile.

The three Chieftain units of the UK 32 Armored Engineer Regiment of the BAOR are flagged for mine/clear, but won't lay mines when you try and give them that command. I haven't tried to clear mines with them yet, but I assume that the way the PzC system works they won't clear mines either. They are flagged for demolition, but there aren't any real obstacles for them to clear so I haven't tested yet whether they can do that.

According to the Wiki:

"32 Armoured Engineer Regiment had three squadrons each of 4 troops, a total of 72 tanks. Each troop had 3 AVREs and 3 AVLBs (bridge layers). The AVRE has a wide range of capabilities including launching fascines (large pipe bundles) into anti tank ditches, laying trackway, clearing mines, dozing and destroying enemy strong points. The bridge layer can lay a scissor bridge over a gap up to 23m wide or a fixed bridge over smaller gaps up to 12m. The complete launching sequence takes less than five minutes. Larger gaps can be crossed using bridges in combination."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1st_Assault..._Engineers

The above and presence of the AVLB's suggests the 32 Regiment may also be given a bridge-laying ability.

Given this is a unique unit more or less descended from the WW2 "Funnies" I can see how it would be difficult to model.

But right now the only thing UK 32 Armored Engineers can do is dig trenches.

Is this WAD? Or did the OOB have a glitch?

[Aaron]

One more small question that has puzzled me for awhile.

The three Chieftain units of the UK 32 Armored Engineer Regiment of the BAOR are flagged for mine/clear, but won't lay mines when you try and give them that command. I haven't tried to clear mines with them yet, but I assume that the way the PzC system works they won't clear mines either. They are flagged for demolition, but there aren't any real obstacles for them to clear so I haven't tested yet whether they can do that.

According to the Wiki:

"32 Armoured Engineer Regiment had three squadrons each of 4 troops, a total of 72 tanks. Each troop had 3 AVREs and 3 AVLBs (bridge layers). The AVRE has a wide range of capabilities including launching fascines (large pipe bundles) into anti tank ditches, laying trackway, clearing mines, dozing and destroying enemy strong points. The bridge layer can lay a scissor bridge over a gap up to 23m wide or a fixed bridge over smaller gaps up to 12m. The complete launching sequence takes less than five minutes. Larger gaps can be crossed using bridges in combination."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1st_Assault..._Engineers

The above and presence of the AVLB's suggests the 32 Regiment may also be given a bridge-laying ability.

Given this is a unique unit more or less descended from the WW2 "Funnies" I can see how it would be difficult to model.

But right now the only thing UK 32 Armored Engineers can do is dig trenches.

Is this WAD? Or did the OOB have a glitch?

32 Armoured Engineer Regt RE
Location: Dennis Bks, Munsterlager
 RHQ & HQ Sqn
 26 Armoured Engineer Sqn
 31 Armoured Engineer Sqn
 77 Armoured Engineer Sqn
 Wksp REME
Notes: Each Sqn Consisted of SHQ, 4x Armd Eng Tps, Support Tp, & REME Sect. REME Wksp contains a RAOC Stores Sect. In 1989 the Sqns fielded the following equipment:
 26 & 31 Sqns (each) - 9x CHIEFTAIN AVLB (6x No.8 Bridges & 5x No.9 Bridges), 5x SCAMMELL CRUSADERS (for the No. 9 Bridges), 6x CENTURION AVRE 165 (with 165mm Demolition gun), and 3x CENTURION AVRE 105 (with 105mm tank gun).
 77 Sqn- 9x CHIEFTAIN AVLB (4x No.8 Bridges & 6x No.9 Bridges), 5x SCAMMELL CRUSADERS (for the No. 9 Bridges), 6x CENTURION AVRE 165 (with 165mm Demolition gun), and 4x CHIEFTAIN AVRE (The “Willich” Chieftains) Source: “One More River to Cross: The Story of British Military Bridging. Col J H Joiner.”
Further Notes: Initially each Armd Div would receive 1x Armd Eng Sqn. After Engineer Trials in 1988/89 it was planned for each Armd Div to have 2x Eng Regts (the three existing Div Eng Regts, the two Corps Eng Regts, & 32 Armd Eng Regt) with 5x Armd/Field Sqns & 1x Field Support Sqn divided between them. The Corps engineers would then consist of 28 Amphib. Eng Regt, 43 Plant Sqn, 65 Corps Support Sqn, & 1x Corps Armd Eng Sqn.

the first post in this thread towards the bottom youll find a link to a BAOR oob, if you download that it will tell you everything u need to know about BAOR.