Il-2-3m or IL-2-37 at Kursk?

[dgk196]

Hello...

I'm trying to put together an air-order-of-battle for Kursk '43. I've found a reference to the IL-2-37 being used there. The aircraft appear to have been allocated to the '208th ShAP'. However, I cannot find this unit listed in any reference of OOB's. Does anyone happen to know which ShAD or which VA the 208th ShAP was assigned to?

Any help or references on this matter would be very much appreciated.

Dennis

[Weasel]

Hi Dennis; I tried looking too and came up with only the IL-2 and IL-10 (and a ton of IL-2 game) but no IL-2-37. Must be experimental maybe?

** Ha, I think this is it, normally the IL-2 had 20mm cannons, but some were equipped with 37mm cannons, thus IL-2-37**

http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/il-2/il2...ns-37.html

[dgk196]

Hi Dennis; I tried looking too and came up with only the IL-2 and IL-10 (and a ton of IL-2 game) but no IL-2-37. Must be experimental maybe?

** Ha, I think this is it, normally the IL-2 had 20mm cannons, but some were equipped with 37mm cannons, thus IL-2-37**

http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/il-2/il2...ns-37.html

Yep.. it was.. interestingly the 37mm equipped IL2's made their debut at the Kursk battle just like the 37mm armed Stuka's. But other than the Shap (two Eskadrilla) that's all that where used in the battle. Thanks for taking the time... I've been working on trying to find this out for some time now. I can be difficult tracking down Russian units... and Russian VVS units ... that's a whole other level indeed.

Dennis

[Weasel]

Holy cow, I totally misread your post, but the fifth time through I picked up you were looking for the unit and not the aircraft. Will look again.

[dgk196]

Holy cow, I totally misread your post, but the fifth time through I picked up you were looking for the unit and not the aircraft. Will look again.

Thanks much... I've looked everywhere I could think of... gone through all of my related books... no luck.

The next problem is of course what parameters for this type ac... have to think that one through.

Dennis

[Strela]

Hi,

There is no 208th SHaP at Kursk. There is a 208th Nbad (night bombers group).

I checked Christer Bergstrom's 'Kursk, The Air Battle: July 1943'. I also checked our OB and supporting data for our Panzer Battles Kursk game and there is no included 208th Shap.

If you need OB info please let me know,

David

[dgk196]

Hello...

That's precisely what I'm trying to determine. I have the book you mentioned, and that's where I started my searches. I'm trying to determine if it is one of those 'little known events' in the history of the battle.

I found this... in the 'Soviet Combat Aircraft of the Second World War, Volume Two: Twin-engine Attack Aircraft and Bombers'.

On page 50... "A small batch of IL-2-37s, as the type was designated, was manufactured at Plant No.30 and underwent service trials with the 208th ShAP during the Kursk battle."

This is the second iteration of this aircraft as the first one had problems with the original 37mm gun (unreliability). Its only a Regiment, so there are only two Escadrilya (Squadrons) to be accounted for. Not a lot of planes, but if they where if fact used there, no matter what the number, I'd like to try to confirm it in order to have an accurate OOB. Any help on this matter would be much appreciated.

Thanks

Dennis

[Weasel]

They mention the 208th here:

http://wp.scn.ru/en/ww2/a/264/1

but the article site is only in Russian. Maybe contact the website owner and ask him for information on it, where he got it from.

[dgk196]

Hello...

Thanks for the lead 'Weasel'. Coming up with this information requires some detective work. A piece of information here or there... the trail goes cold and then another clue. At least it doesn't get boring. It seems that it is possible that the 208th was part of 1Va or 15VA. I was limiting myself to the units found in the Kursk '43 game. It seems the Germans and the Russians had a different idea of what areas and units made up the battle of Kursk!

It seems that air units from 'neighboring' (in Kursk '43 game terms) took part in attacks 'north' and 'south' and in the Kursk bulge, as needed. As they where poised to be part of the counter-attack by the Russians into those areas so as to cut off the German forces in what is the area presented in the Kursk '43 game. Looks like the map and the forces involved should cover much more than that in the game.

Sure would be a big game.. but then it is already so what would it matter if it where enlarged to cover the areas north and south of the bulge. Where is that full-map editor when you really need it, eh? If and when I come up with the information regarding the 208th I'll be sure to post it... now time to add some air units to the game!

Dennis

[Weasel]

It is really hard getting detailed information for the Soviets in WW2, pretty easy for the Germans and Allies though. There is a Russian player on the SP ladder, Leo, he might have access to stuff on the Russian servers that we don't have access to.

Chris