Newbie: Which PzC game to begin?

[76mm]

When you get around to the Smolensk campaign, I wouldn't recommend playing against the AI, I don't think it would be able to cope with the fluid situation. I played myself head-to-head and thoroughly enjoyed it, playing someone else would have been great but would be a huge time commitment.

[Nitram Draw]

Kharkov 42 is pretty good also. Both sides get to attack and defend and you have a wide variety of forces.

[Outlaw Josey Wales]

I was going to mention there was also a Kharkov 42 and 43, Rhzev 42 and Budapest 45. You really can't go wrong with any of the titles whether EF, WF, Med or Modern. Just grab whatever floats your boat. If the game system suits you, it won't take long before you find yourself owning several titles.

[Drakken]

When you get around to the Smolensk campaign, I wouldn't recommend playing against the AI, I don't think it would be able to cope with the fluid situation. I played myself head-to-head and thoroughly enjoyed it, playing someone else would have been great but would be a huge time commitment.

Never played against myself head-to-head before. Always felt that when I play against myself one side is always one step ahead to win.

Wouldn't it preferable to just throw myself into a H2H when I read the manual and play against the AI a bit? After all I'm still a bootcamper.

Some things, however, remain obscure in the manual:

- Where do you place the counters to actually cut supply and make units isolated? Behind the enemy unit you want to surround? Can you see the hexside of the opponent's supply line?
- Is there any bonus when you use Direct Fire on an enemy unit when friendly units on the neighboring hexes to represent coordinated support, especially if these are from the same HQ?
- Nowhere in the manual there is any mention of the actual modifiers for terrain (forest, urban, swamps, etc.) on Attack and Defence values. Are there any, aside elevation and visibility?

Thanks!

[BigDuke66]

- Where do you place the counters to actually cut supply and make units isolated? Behind the enemy unit you want to surround? Can you see the hexside of the opponent's supply line?

Well it would be enough if the ZOC(zone of control) of your units forms a continuous "blockade" around the enemy, here you have to watch that enemy units could prohibit this "blockade" from being continuous as the supply line can run over them to reach the unit you wanted to encircle.

- Is there any bonus when you use Direct Fire on an enemy unit when friendly units on the neighboring hexes to represent coordinated support, especially if these are from the same HQ?

For direct fire, not that I know.

- Nowhere in the manual there is any mention of the actual modifiers for terrain (forest, urban, swamps, etc.) on Attack and Defence values. Are there any, aside elevation and visibility?

Oh yes, take a look at the PDT, all terrain is listed with a modifier that is used for this.
And you can see the modifier for the current hex in the terrain box.

[76mm]

Wouldn't it preferable to just throw myself into a H2H when I read the manual and play against the AI a bit? After all I'm still a bootcamper.

Sure up to you! Personally I find it difficult to make the time commitment necessary to play a full campaign head-to-head, especially if I was just learning the game system and was likely to be trounced...168 turns is a long time to suffer

[Mr Grumpy]

Playing the large scenarios straight off without any experience of the game system or fully understanding the rules will lead to frustration as the sheer amount of units and situations you don't understand will give you a headache, it is like running before you have learned to walk.

Far better to play small scenarios against the AI without FOW while reading the manual, once you get a feel play the AI with FOW on, then consider playing several small scenarios H2H to gain experience before expanding into the bigger scenarios.

Slowly learning the system and gaining experience to build up to the big scenarios was all part of the fun for me.

[Drakken]

I fiddlled around with the Operation no.3 scenario (the getting started one) to get started. Used my troops very stupidly, took em whole turns to understand how to use my Engineers to build a bridge, but in the end finally got around to take at least one objective despite heavy losses. Oddly, when the scenario was over and the FOW was lifted a whole Division (34th IIRC) was sitting on the road North of Orsha in neat position, doing absolutely nothing. Did the AI fall asleep, or is it the way the scenario was written to give a starting player a fighting chance?

then I started Operation no.1 (the one to practice fording over a River going through the whole map). Finally got to understand how to use my troops (and my artillery) efficiently, the principle of disruption, planning movements, using Soft vs Hard attack, Assaults, etc. By the end of Turn 10 (on 16) my whole troops had passed over the River, I already had the 3 objectives, isolate a whole stack of Rifle Divisions, and annihilated them with far fewer casualties. I'm proud of my learning progression, but it's against the AI so I mustn't pat myself too hard on my shoulder.

Bigger maps, though, seem more daunting.

I got a question, though. Glacing at the supply rules and the map of bigger scenarios, is it possible to use tanks to create big pockets on bigger maps, or even have a bonus for attacking from the rear? From me reading It seems impossible, troops become isolated if and only if all its surrounding hexes are within enemy ZOC within close range. It seems odd JT had no provision in its rules for encirclements, as it was a pivotal aim of combining arms in blitzkrieg.

[Ricky B]

Encirclements are not a problem. There is no requirement to have the enemy ZOCs in close range to encircle you - you are isolated if you can't trace a line of adjacent hexes to a friendly supply source, so it can be far away. Once isolated, everything drops a morale step, and after firing units go low supply, and lose another step. Even possible to go low fuel, for motorized units, on the next fuel check turn making the unit more vulnerable defensively, and yes losing another morale step.

I have seen huge encirclements in Kharkov '42, there the encircling units covered a line of more than 100 hexes to form the encirclement, and others small and close in with a few to many units trapped inside of it.

[Drakken]

Encirclements are not a problem. There is no requirement to have the enemy ZOCs in close range to encircle you - you are isolated if you can't trace a line of adjacent hexes to a friendly supply source, so it can be far away. Once isolated, everything drops a morale step, and after firing units go low supply, and lose another step. Even possible to go low fuel, for motorized units, on the next fuel check turn making the unit more vulnerable defensively, and yes losing another morale step.

I have seen huge encirclements in Kharkov '42, there the encircling units covered a line of more than 100 hexes to form the encirclement, and others small and close in with a few to many units trapped inside of it.

And these 100 hexes in line were ALL occupied contiguously by at least one unit?! Or where they spaced with each of their ZOCs covering one another's ZOC?

It's hard for me to visualise it, yet.