Squad Battles / Heroes of Stalingrad

[Don Czirr]

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Matrix Forum Thread


Hey Guys - I was thinking of picking up Red Victory / AOTR or HOS and I thought the views in this thread were interesting ...


This was taken from the Matrix forum though so there may be some bias ...


Any thoughts here - if anyone has happened to have played both?

[Rabbit]

This might be an oversimplification, but I think you might find HOS more enjoyable in the short term, but you will find Squad Battles (e.g., either RV or AOTR) much more enjoyable in the long term. In other words, you will find Squad Battles offers vastly more replayability and likewise you'll easily find plenty of human opponents for PBEM (which is where Squad Battles truly shines!).

Also once you learn the mechanics of Squad Battles, there is a wealth of Squad Battles titles and scenarios available. So unlike HOS where you'd learn the game engine and play it for a while before moving on to some other war game, you might easily find yourself hooked on Squad Battles for a long time to come. Case in point, I started playing Squad Battles back in 2009 and I'm still hooked!

[Rabbit]

In terms of a direct comparison, HOS has a much slicker interface and prettier graphics, which I think makes it perhaps a little more fun when you are first getting started with it. However Squad Battles has a much more robust and rock-solid game engine, which you will appreciate the more you play it.

And perhaps the most telling point is to simply scroll through both forums. You will easily see there is a lot more activity on the Squad Battles forum than the one for HOS.

[Richie61]

Hey Don,

I have both. I was even on the beta testing team for HoS. HoS is a port of a great little board
game system as you may know. HoS is small maps and based on the Eastern Front during mid
WWII. SB can range from small maps to large maps and covers WWI to Modern.

HoS is based on a dice driven game engine where unit factors are given some type of number, where
SB has a engine based on data like morale, leadership, weapons with data based on real numbers. HoS
can only be played against other people in real time (face to face) on a server, where SB can be played
with PBEM by sending your turns thru e-mail to the other person.

HoS is a great game for solo play. Of course you are limited to a small selection of scenarios and Eastern
Front. There are so mods for HoS, but they can only do so much. HoS is no longer being developed by
Matrix. Lock N Load is working on a new game based on the Pacific and this game will have add on modules in the future. But it will always be a small map, board game port.

Guess the two games are based on this:

HoS: computer dice rolls like a board game based on simple numbers.

SB: computer based squad game based on data for weapon systems using a computer based engine that
rolls cyber dice based on data like weapon degrading, range, armor, morale and leadership. To win in SB
you need to use real infantry tactics.

I have both games and enjoy both, but SB would be my game if I had to chose one over the other.

Just remember that all games have + & - (pros & cons).

If you pick up SB, I say go with Red Victory. There are like 99 scenarios and the play balance of these
is top notch. I have all the SB titles and the WWII titles are my drug of choice.

[Don Czirr]

Excellent answers Gentlemen.

I appreciate you taking the time.

From my recent entry into the Panzer Campaigns and Modern Campaigns worlds and my long time appreciation of the CS games, I have built up a very strong respect for JTS products.

It's good to know that they successfully extended their system down to the tactical / squad level and that there is a thriving community here.

I believe that in the end, I'll wind up buying both (as I am a bit of a Stalingrad fan) but will probably pick up RV first - based upon the recommendations and the more advanced weapons that should be available to both the Wehrmacht and the Red Army.

Thanks to both of you,
Don

[Wodin]

Red Victory every time. LnL has to me an awful spotting mechanic which actually goes against German Urban combat doctrine as you can't recon by fire.

[Richie61]

Red Victory every time. LnL has to me an awful spotting mechanic which actually goes against German Urban combat doctrine as you can't recon by fire.

The spotting deal is like the board game, but again it's a dice based game and not based on real
life data.

I dislike the lack of "Area Fire" more in HoS. That is a bigger issue in urban fighting

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I believe that in the end, I'll wind up buying both (as I am a bit of a Stalingrad fan) but will probably pick up RV first - based upon the recommendations and the more advanced weapons that should be available to both the Wehrmacht and the Red Army.

Don,

Nice sig

RV and AotR has some great Stalingrad scenarios! I am a Stalingrad/ Eastern Front junkie.

[Wodin]

Richie thats what I mean about the spotting you can only shoot at a unit that is spotted and every turn units become unspotted and need to be spotted again.

So recon by fire or in other words area fire isn't possible.

Red Victory every time. LnL has to me an awful spotting mechanic which actually goes against German Urban combat doctrine as you can't recon by fire.

The spotting deal is like the board game, but again it's a dice based game and not based on real
life data.

I dislike the lack of "Area Fire" more in HoS. That is a bigger issue in urban fighting

---

I believe that in the end, I'll wind up buying both (as I am a bit of a Stalingrad fan) but will probably pick up RV first - based upon the recommendations and the more advanced weapons that should be available to both the Wehrmacht and the Red Army.

Don,

Nice sig

RV and AotR has some great Stalingrad scenarios! I am a Stalingrad/ Eastern Front junkie.

[-72-]

I really liked the part where Mark H Walker chimed in on his own design... spoiler alert - he likes it better.

Really classy move. I guess I expected a little better. at myself ... what was I thinking.

[Don Czirr]

Red Victory every time. LnL has to me an awful spotting mechanic which actually goes against German Urban combat doctrine as you can't recon by fire.

The spotting deal is like the board game, but again it's a dice based game and not based on real
life data.

I dislike the lack of "Area Fire" more in HoS. That is a bigger issue in urban fighting

---

I believe that in the end, I'll wind up buying both (as I am a bit of a Stalingrad fan) but will probably pick up RV first - based upon the recommendations and the more advanced weapons that should be available to both the Wehrmacht and the Red Army.

Don,

Nice sig

RV and AotR has some great Stalingrad scenarios! I am a Stalingrad/ Eastern Front junkie.

Ah .... thanks Richie - that is good news. I was wondering if there was some Stalingrad overlap between those 2 titles.

From the description, it seemed that RV might have started after Stalingrad ... but as it's covered there too and you guys say the play balance is top notch .... that will be my initial target.

It will be a few weeks before that happens (bonus time is near !) - until then, I'll have to satisfy my Stalingrad cravings with EF II. ;)