Squad Battles / Heroes of Stalingrad

[Richie61]

I really liked the part where Mark H Walker chimed in on his own design... spoiler alert - he likes it better.

Really classy move. I guess I expected a little better. at myself ... what was I thinking.

I think Mark was being cheeky

Mark got kicked to the curb after he brought Heath in as an investor and then sold L n L to Heath.

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Don,

AotR was 1941 to early 1943 (end of Stalingrad) and RV picked up there. But Marc did a bunch of
Stalingrad scenarios for RV and game wise RV has everything that was in AotR plus new weapons.
Thus you could built early Eastern Front scenarios in RV.

Ed

[jomni]

HOS is very gamey for me. Real life tactics work but most is about luck and understanding of the rules more than anything else.

[Richie61]

Agree. But HoS (Band of Heroes) was made to be an easier squad level game than say Squad Leader.

I picked this up and it's a cool little man to man (squad based) game.
http://minden_games.homestead.com/CombatLeader.html

[Wodin]

As you know got it aswell including the urban expansion, really enjoy it. Well worth the money.

Agree. But HoS (Band of Heroes) was made to be an easier squad level game than say Squad Leader.

I picked this up and it's a cool little man to man (squad based) game.
http://minden_games.homestead.com/CombatLeader.html

[Don Czirr]

Hey Guys - just flashing back to the nature of the games quickly:

I saw a complaint from a while back in this forum about lack of Smoke availability in AOTR.

Is that still the case and was that improved along with the play-balance in RV?

[Stejones82]

Just be aware that any SqB title will involve a fairly heavy investment in learning the system. Solo play is fair to decent, but the system shines in PBEM. But the vets will eat your lunch until you get savvy.

RL issues have me playing more in a -egads, dare I say- simplistic, abstract system with cutesy graphics and UI (read "Battle Academy")

"Hi - My name is Steve and I am a 54 year old adolescent." "HI STEVE!"

SqB is a fantastic engine with many nuances, but it is like a fine wine or a good woman - takes time to master and appreciate.

[NB: above said with ABSOLUTELY no "50 Shades" allusion!]

I have been playing SqB for about three years and consider myself to have barely cracked intermediate status - - cannon fodder for the likes of the real vets. But the good ones here, and they are many, are always gracious and willing to instruct. But they still eat my lunch and spit out the yucky parts onto my lap. [blech]

Enjoy - SqB is a great, perhaps unequaled system - no joke.

[jomni]

On a related note, Heroes of Stalingrad is on sale. 25% off

[Jeff Conner]

Don

Smoke usage is coded into the game. An allowance is then provided to each player by the scenario designer. I must have missed the discussion of lack of smoke in AOTR, but that is not an issue with the game itself, but with the scenario. And yes, there were several stock scenarios in AOTR that were not well balanced. The unit database was also locked so that no additional weapons/guns/vehicles could be added. I believe this was in part to protect the upcoming title on the second half of the war, but it did cause some consternation amongst the masses. However, all of that being said, there have been some good custom scenarios made for this title and if you look at the number of completed games by title, it is one of the highest. There must be a reason it is played so much.

Red Victory was designed by Ozgur Budak, who in my humble opinion, is the best Squad Battles scenario designer around. There are lots of scenarios, the play balance is as good as it gets and the tactical questions are numerous and well thought out. If someone asks me what SB game they should get, I recommend Red Victory.

I like Heroes of Stalingrad, but I agree with one of the other posters here that it is a luck driven game. Proper small unit tactics will work to some extent, but can be defeated by good (or bad) die rolls. An example of the difference between the two would be the use of smoke. In SB, you have a smoke allowance that is known to you. Once you use it, it is gone and there won't be anymore. And there is a very good chance that the smoke round will work properly. In HoS, smoke is placed by rolling a die. If you get a certain number or higher, a smoke marker is generated. If not, your unit is done for the turn. You can roll as many times as you have units and you will never run out of smoke. One method of smoke simulation rewards the proper use, the other makes it unlikely that it will be used very often.

Jeff

[Don Czirr]

So ... I ended up buying all of them:

RV
AOTR
HOS
and also Company of Heroes - Storms of Steel


My sentiments after playing around with all for a while:

- As was predicted, the interfaces and graphics for the newer games was quite superior to SB

- Interestingly though, the overall atmosphere was not as lop-sided for the new games. I found that touching up the BMP files and using some of the nice mods I found - along with the great native background sound put SB in real contention (for my tastes)

- Game play : The whole dice rolling thing was not so bad for me .... coming from old Avalon Hill and SPI board games, it was quite nostalgic ... although there have been a fair amount of "C'mon ... you have to be kidding" moments - which I almost never get with JTS titles ...

- Longevity : it's surprising, but many of the newer games just fizzle out. I know there is a whole long story with the LnL product line - but it seems that a lot of the Devs for other games either just disappear or give all their attention to new projects.

- JTS seems eternal ;)

It was interesting to read this article on the Wargamer:

http://www.wargamer.com/Article/10028


Although I have not bought them (yet), it seems to me that recent JTS titles FWW and PB are improving in terms of graphics / interface ....

I wonder if the same type of improvements might be applied to SB or will a new series be used to introduce a more up-to-date interface / graphics standard?

Anyone know about that?