I hate PzIVs

[Steiner14]

Canadian Cat,

Reading this it seems like you are saying that you and a handful other approved people are the only ones that count. I hope that is not what you are saying.

I don't know why you are turning things upside down, but the opposite is true: they ignore players like me and they serve the realtime crowd.
As I have explained previously, WE are the ones that are being ignored. Because of this SH.T realtime, we have 7 second spotting cycles. Because of it, we have all the LOS problems.
So please spare me this nonsense, that everything was done as we want it.
Fact is, the core PBEM players are being ignored since CMSF came out.
But with the Ardennes game and again even the most fundamental things all PBEM players demand and which already CMx1 offered once again being ignored, finally the mask is off.

For years they muted the patient PBEM community with the claim, that they have such a long pipeline of developments and they must set priorities.
But they don't even have plans for the absolutely minimal gameplay improvements like the 180°-CA! With the announcement of Ardennes being the same v3 engine this has been uncovered as blatant lie.

So please do not put things upside down. Not the wishes of PBEM players are the ones being too much respected - the problem is we are ignored and we were deceived and fobbed off with excuses and many bought their products, in the believe this would help them to be able to develop the game faster.
Nothing but lies.

A new family, no engine improvements but we have no plans for the 180°-CA this time...

[Toblakai]

I see things differently. They draw their ideas for enhancements directly from what the community asks for. Sure they don't do everything we want nor do they move very fast. We are all entitled to our opinion on what is the most important thing to improve on but your list does not match up exactly to mine list etc. etc. and BFC has to decide where to spend their development effort. If you are not having fun any more and don't want to play any longer that is a drag but that is your choice. Me, I am having lots of fun and I can watch the improvements arrive slowly and just enjoy the new content as it is released.

Of course everybody has his own view of things and it’s completely okay to have it and it should be like this I am not angry about it, just a little disappointed that a game with this great potential is moving in this direction.

[A Canadian Cat]

Canadian Cat,

Reading this it seems like you are saying that you and a handful other approved people are the only ones that count. I hope that is not what you are saying.

I don't know why you are turning things upside down, but the opposite is true: they ignore players like me and they serve the realtime crowd.

Well I just don't see it like that. The things you have said you want, select units by clicking way point lines, 180 cover arcs etc don't even rate on my top 20 list of stuff I would like to see. Heck I don't actually ever want clickable way point lines. Don't get me wrong if those are the things that are most important to you I'm not saying you should not care I'm just saying I do not think that it follows because your most important issues are not BFC's most important issues therefore we are being ignored. Do you see what I mean? Sometimes it sounds like you are saying your way is the best way and everyone else is not important - kinda like you are saying BFC is doing. I guess I am saying we can have different ideas of what features are important without the sky falling.

Note the issue of a seven second spotting cycle is something that I see as an issue. However it should be noted that that is no longer the case. The cycle is dynamic and is adjusted to much faster for units in close proximity. This was done to address some of the problems with spotting that people were running into.

I see where you are coming from with regard to some behaviours are in the game because of the need to balance processing times for real time play. I guess I just do not see it as dragging the game experience down. I played CM1 games and once CMBN came out I literally finished my PBEM commitments and never started them up again. Probably the only thing that I missed was movable way points and now that that is in I am happy to play the game as it is and enjoy updates when they arrive.

I guess that sums it up I am happy with the way it plays and you are not. I think that is a shame and I 1) hope they make changes that make you guys happier and 2) hope that you guys can find enough joy to keep playing.

[A Canadian Cat]

Of course everybody has his own view of things and it’s completely okay to have it and it should be like this I am not angry about it, just a little disappointed that a game with this great potential is moving in this direction.

Indeed. I get what you are saying.

I saw your post about upgrading multiple games on the BFC board. It sure did not take long for the idea of upgrading older games when new features came out to look a bit scary. I remember when they first announced their plans there was one new game and one to upgrade. Now that number just keeps going up and up.

[Steiner14]

CC,
if 180 CAs or clickable movement paths are not on your list, I am curious how you are playing.
Do you play to win or do you just play because of the action?
I ask, because I found that there are players who even like to play tank-only battles and do not really check LOS, just play from level 3 or 4.

My impression is, the better the player, the more he uses the tools the game allows. And that means to check the map and movements from Level 1. But if this is done, then the not clickable movement paths immediately come into play...

The same is true for good tank combat players. I played so many people who have no clue hwo to move tanks, but the good ones I played all used everything the engine offers. And that means for example turret and hull are 45° oriented. Just like in reality. But to make this possible the 180°-CA IS NECESSARY.

Therefore I would be interested to hear something about your playing style.

[A Canadian Cat]

CC,
if 180 CAs or clickable movement paths are not on your list, I am curious how you are playing.
Do you play to win or do you just play because of the action?

Hell ya I play to win - always, every time, in every game. You can see from my ladder ranking that while not top dog I'm well above the half way point.

My impression is, the better the player, the more he uses the tools the game allows. And that means to check the map and movements from Level 1. But if this is done, then the not clickable movement paths immediately come into play...

I am down in the weeds all the time. I only monitor where the action is from a higher level on my first run through of a turn after that I'm right down in the weeds watching how things play out and what the terrain looks like. Heck I sometimes don't use the LOS tool but use the magnification control instead. At no time have I ever said to my self - gee I wish I could select a unit by clicking on a movement path. Not one time. In fact if I do happen to think about that feature I am usually looking at a complex set of orders and I think - wow am I glad that is not in the game otherwise I might accidentally mess up my current selection instead of letting me control the orders of my current unit

And that means for example turret and hull are 45° oriented. Just like in reality. But to make this possible the 180°-CA IS NECESSARY.

Yep, that means play the terrain, play the trees, pay attention to the elevation, find the hull down location and if I need a cover arc I whip one up lickity split. I never missed an auto 180 command once. If it were there, sure I would use it.

My point is I *do* use the capabilities in the game - all of them. The ones that are actually there. And I play the game as it is now and enjoy it. When new features get added I'll play those too. It really is that simple.

[Steiner14]

This very much reminds me about my own playing style. You are down in the weeds and never have the wish to adjust waypoints? Either you are the perfect waypointer or I am a spastic.
With the importance (and beauty, btw) of level 1 in agreement, let's take the case that a brilliant LOS is discovered and a unit, which could used has a plotted path nearby. Going up to level 3 turning around and searching for the corresponding units and then going back and searching the exact spot again sometimes is so frustrating because it would be not necessary shown by CMx1. And sometimes a misfortunate click and the unit is deselected... Especially wonderful on larger maps.
With clickable waypoints you stay where you are and click the paths until you have found the wished unit.

And this is even the less cumbersome situation. When it comes to crossing bridges without creating a jam with several units, the forced rotating of the camera to select each unit and then turning back again to adjust a waypoint or add pauses is awful. It is so bad, that sometimes I even accept a worse crossing only to avoid the clickfest.

[Steiner14]

@Toblakai
I just saw your post on the BFC forums.
My congratulations on the diplomatic, humble and moderate tone - which I am afraid is totally inadequate for these zombies. They probably will not even understand that your comment is highly related to sales among PBEM players and therefore success of CM.

[PoorOldSpike]

It must be getting on for 10 years since I was last in the BFC forum and it was like a madhouse because no matter what tactical comments I made to try to help newcomers, I was howled down by a loud minority of regulars, and once even a couple of the developers tried arguing with me. Eventually one poster asked "Who the hell do you think you are, coming here and trying to tell people how to play?", so I replied "I'm the Rugged Defense ladder leader", and posted this pic-



and the next time i tried to log in to BFC this message came up- "You have been banned: Date ban will be lifted-Never".
No sweat, I need their forum like I need a hole in the head..:)

[A Canadian Cat]

This very much reminds me about my own playing style. You are down in the weeds and never have the wish to adjust waypoints? Either you are the perfect waypointer or I am a spastic.

LOL I doubt I am special. Here is what I do when looking to move a unit to that awesome place I found: F12 key! and the v key! I use those commands constantly. For those that don't know F12 is the select last selected unit and the v key is flip the camera 180. So I start by selecting the unit I plan to move and usually make some larger movement orders towards the place I want it to go. Then once I drop down to level 1 or two or three clicks down from level 2, whichever is appropriate, I can clear the selection and see what can be seen as I move the camera around to find that great spot. Then F12, v and I am back to having the unit selected and probably close to the same camera direction as before. I might have to rotate the camera and boom place the last way point or pull the last one back to just that right spot.