First Panzer Battles Tournament

[Landser34]

1st turn for the last round sent out.

[Ricky B]

Dog Soldier, curious if at the end, you are going to share your scoring method for this tourney? At the end of round 3, Gregor was 27 pts ahead of me, 1885 to 1858. Essentially a dead heat as you noted then. In round 4, Gregor had a draw, while I achieved a Major win. But you still show Gregor ahead after that result. So obviously you are scoring off of something quite a bit different than the actual game result, or at least using some kind of weighting - losses? - that greatly overshadows the game result.

So from the beginning, I thought the rankings would in some way reflect the actual game results overall, or possibly some kind of weighting of scores to differentiate two major wins, one by 2 points and one by 100 points, etc. As it is now clear that is not what you are doing, it would be good to know, and I would suggest hints in the future as to what the basis of victory will be. Right now, it appears "random" compared to the game results, at least based on round 4 results.

Just a thought, enjoying the battles wonderfully, but with no guidance on the ultimate goal, it takes something away from the tournament itself for me.

Thanks
Rick

[Beerweasel]

Kuriltai & Beerweasel have taken the gloves off for round 5!

[Ricky B]

ComradeP and I have started up the match.

Rick

[Dog Soldier]

Dog Soldier, curious if at the end, you are going to share your scoring method for this tourney? At the end of round 3, Gregor was 27 pts ahead of me, 1885 to 1858. Essentially a dead heat as you noted then. In round 4, Gregor had a draw, while I achieved a Major win. But you still show Gregor ahead after that result. So obviously you are scoring off of something quite a bit different than the actual game result, or at least using some kind of weighting - losses? - that greatly overshadows the game result.

So from the beginning, I thought the rankings would in some way reflect the actual game results overall, or possibly some kind of weighting of scores to differentiate two major wins, one by 2 points and one by 100 points, etc. As it is now clear that is not what you are doing, it would be good to know, and I would suggest hints in the future as to what the basis of victory will be. Right now, it appears "random" compared to the game results, at least based on round 4 results.

Just a thought, enjoying the battles wonderfully, but with no guidance on the ultimate goal, it takes something away from the tournament itself for me.

Thanks
Rick

RickyB,

I have reviewed the math for the tournament round four results. There are no errors in the math as it was setup.

The tournament scoring certainly not random at all. It is a system similar used by Jeff Connor and TheBigRedOne in their Squad Battle tournaments. After a separate discussion with each of these blitz officers, I created a system to fit Panzer Battles. Then I reviewed this scoring system with Strela. The first rounds of the tournament vetted the system. Rest assured it is not a random result.

That said, some scenarios are larger than others which squeezes the point spread between victory levels. You and Gregor are close in both the round and overall tournament. Even closer than round three. There are other 'weighted' factors from the game results that modify the straight victory levels in the scenario. Both you and Gregor were a case where these other factors offset the difference in victory levels. Even so your score for the round was significantly larger than Gregor's, it was just shy of passing him in the overall standings.

A major win is still better than anything else. It is not just enough to achieve a major win by scenario scoring, but it also how the win was achieved. This matters more in the smaller scenarios than the larger ones. For that, it cannot be helped. I have dropped (what I think) are some pretty big clues on the competition page and in the posts starting each round, how to win the round in the tournament for both sides. I would not reveal more since I may use this system again in a future tournament, It works really well.

If enough is known about the specific scoring method though, it can be 'gamed' just like any other tournament scoring model.
That would, IMHO, be a shame.

Since most players entering the tournament had no 'blitz record' for PzB, it was quite impossible to tell if any players were evenly matched. It appears from the game results of round four that many of the games were complete mismatches in skill levels. #0706_05 Pokrovka - Man vs. Tank scenario was considered one of the most closely balanced scenarios in the game. This is because the advantages each side (Axis and Soviet) had were radically different for each side. Unfortunately, if one player does not realize his advantage and/or use it well, the possibility of being beaten seems high as the round four results bear out.

All pairs of players were decided in advance of the tournament beginning for every round by random choice, then some minor adjustments so no one would play the same player twice. I think this aspect rounds things out so a player who finds out he is the fish in a shark tank, will not overly affect the overall results.

I hope this post puts aside any fears you had about randomness in the tournament scoring. Enjoy the round.

Dog Soldier

[Ricky B]

DS, thanks for the detailed response. Regarding the "random" I know it isn't random, but as I said, when a major win vs a draw is not enough to break what is essentially a dead heat after the prior round, then that is "random" if a person has no idea what is driving it. I used quotes because I know it isn't random, just appears that way.

As to hints, I have seen stuff that seems to emphasize objectives over victory points. At least that is how I have taken most of them. But not a lot to do there in many cases, depending on what the opponent is doing.

Anyway, do it how you want, but my gaming theory classes said there should be a defined goal for victory for a game, rather than a hidden route, and this is more hidden. But still, enjoying the battles anyway.

Thanks
Rick

[Outlaw Josey Wales]

I haven't heard from PijusMagnificus yet. I sent him an email through the Blitz requesting he drop me a line so I can send the turn.

[Beerweasel]

Kuriltai & Beerweasel have just finished round 5. Beerweasel managed to get a Major Victory. The battlefield is littered with tanks from both sides! How is everyone else doing? How soon do we start round 6?

[Gregor]

congratulation Landser34 and myself finished the game, or rather he surendered after turn 12. He had then lost about 50 panzerand we were fighting over the two luchki vilages. When OJW didnt got contact with his oponent we agreed with DS to fight eachother. So we are laging behind and are now at turn 9.

[Ricky B]

Another dominating victory Beerweasel. My game has hit a slow period, maybe pick back up again soon, although I will be out on a long weekend ride, 245 miles in the Rockies in 2 days, so I won't be available to play myself at that point.