The LAST PANZER CAMPAIGNS GAME?

[Kool Kat]

Gordons HQ
"I totally lost interest in these games when it looks like possibly the last PzC's title was published for a very long time.
This move towards WWI is not for me and although WWI is interesting to read about, sadly for me it is hardly the fluid movement of WWII. I have heard all the aurguments to the contrary of course, but dress it up as you like, once things settled down to trench warefare it was simply a war of attrition.
Each to there own opinion of course but that is my take on the way these games are going.
With this post I simply wanted to point out we are not all happy with things in the Operational Series.
Lucky for me at least there are still some new games out there that fit my criteria."

Gents:

Each to his own opinion?

For me, I'm NOT interested in "collecting" PzC titles... but actually "playing" them!   

Let's take a quick look at a popular PzC title - Kursk '43.

There are 46 Kursk '43 scenarios.

50% of these scenarios have 9 or less reported Ladder matches.

37% of these scenarios have 3 or less reported Ladder matches. 

In other words, there's a lot of Kursk '43 scenarios that are not being played by folks... or at least not "seriously" enough to have players report Ladder PBeM matches. Some of that "lack of play" could be because these scenarios / alt scenarios are not interesting. But certainly some of the Kursk '43 scenarios gathering "dust" are because folks have not gotten around to playing them? 

I would also contend that other "less popular" PzC titles (e.g. Sicily '43) get less plays.

I learn something new (Game play, rule nuances, unit capabilities, etc.) every time I play a PzC PBeM match... and get great enjoyment pitting myself against the different play styles of Blitz members. I also like to play through all interesting scenarios in a PzC title before moving on to another title... but again that's just how I like to occupy my gaming time with this terrific war game series. 

Maybe more playing of your owned PzC titles... against a variety of players... would decrease your frustration level and increase your enjoyment & fun factors? 

[jonnymacbrown]

F 14 & EP 14 are all about movement; plenty of open spaces, few trenches, wide ranging cavalry: you'll like it! jonny

[Al]

F 14 & EP 14 are all about movement; plenty of open spaces, few trenches, wide ranging cavalry: you'll like it! jonny

Agreed.  EP'14 especially has room for maneuver.

[dgk196]

"02 Nov 2012- Panzer Campaigns: Moscow '42 has been released."

This was the last Panzer Campaigns to be released, it has been almost three years.   Does anyone know if there are any more planned or was this the Last One?

Hello....

I don't know if it is the last PzC to be released... there are 'other' titles elsewhere, I believe... from Mr. Tiller.

But, if it is true.. there is one last thing I would like to see, made available... either for free or for sale.

That is ... a Full Map Editor!

Dennis

[-72-]

"02 Nov 2012- Panzer Campaigns: Moscow '42 has been released."

This was the last Panzer Campaigns to be released, it has been almost three years.   Does anyone know if there are any more planned or was this the Last One?

Hello....

I don't know if it is the last PzC to be released... there are 'other' titles elsewhere, I believe... from Mr. Tiller.

But, if it is true.. there is one last thing I would like to see, made available... either for free or for sale.

That is ... a Full Map Editor!

Dennis

It isn't true, which renders the rest moot.

[76mm]

I find it difficult to follow the argument that providing a map editor will ruin the Panzer Campaigns franchise...does anyone really think that anyone will whip up a free game comparable in scope and quality to the titles which Tiller currently produces, including all of the scenarios? I just don't see it happening.

Even if it would happen, I think it would only benefit the overall franchise--when a game engine is as old as this one, I think the dev should do everything possible to maintain interest in the engine, if nothing else to generate more sales from the existing catalog of Panzer Campaigns games. If no new Panzer Campaigns games are forthcoming in the foreseeable future, I think that interest in these titles will gradually but inevitably decline.

[Dog Soldier]

I find it difficult to follow the argument that providing a map editor will ruin the Panzer Campaigns franchise...does anyone really think that anyone will whip up a free game comparable in scope and quality to the titles which Tiller currently produces, including all of the scenarios?  I just don't see it happening. 

Which is the best argument I have seen to not release a map editor and have sub-standard scenarios and games on the market masquerading under the Panzer Campaigns brand.

Dog Soldier

[jonnymacbrown]

I find it difficult to follow the argument that providing a map editor will ruin the Panzer Campaigns franchise...does anyone really think that anyone will whip up a free game comparable in scope and quality to the titles which Tiller currently produces, including all of the scenarios?  I just don't see it happening. 

Which is the best argument I have seen to not release a map editor and have sub-standard scenarios and games on the market masquerading under the Panzer Campaigns brand.

Dog Soldier

Why does anyone need a mad editor anyway? jonny

[76mm]

"Which is the best argument I have seen to not release a map editor and have sub-standard scenarios and games on the market masquerading under the Panzer Campaigns brand."

I strongly disagree for two reasons:

First, I somehow suspect that players would be able to distinguish between scenarios and games "on the market" that they buy from Tiller and the free games created by other players, so there is no "masquerading" involved.  Many other wargames include full scenario editors, including map editors, without diluting their brands.

Second, just because players could not create the large games like in Tiller's titles does not mean that they could not create high-quality, smaller titles that could be very interesting.  For instance, while I don't see anyone creating a 200x200 hex map and accompanying scenarios, they could very well create a high-quality 20x20 hex map with a single scenario.  

A similar argument could be applied about the ability to mod the game's graphics--because players are free to mod the graphics, think of all the horrible graphics mods which could have "diluted" the Panzer Campaigns brand...and yet the exact opposite happened...the graphics modders significantly increased the game's appearance and I suppose extended its life by many years.

[Dog Soldier]

"Which is the best argument I have seen to not release a map editor and have sub-standard scenarios and games on the market masquerading under the Panzer Campaigns brand."

I strongly disagree for two reasons:

First, I somehow suspect that players would be able to distinguish between scenarios and games "on the market" that they buy from Tiller and the free games created by other players, so there is no "masquerading" involved.  Many other wargames include full scenario editors, including map editors, without diluting their brands.

Second, just because players could not create the large games like in Tiller's titles does not mean that they could not create high-quality, smaller titles that could be very interesting.  For instance, while I don't see anyone creating a 200x200 hex map and accompanying scenarios, they could very well create a high-quality 20x20 hex map with a single scenario.  

A similar argument could be applied about the ability to mod the game's graphics--because players are free to mod the graphics, think of all the horrible graphics mods which could have "diluted" the Panzer Campaigns brand...and yet the exact opposite happened...the graphics modders significantly increased the game's appearance and I suppose extended its life by many years.