Understanding Defensive Fire

[wiggum]

The manual says:
"Unlimited op fire (as in Squad Battles)."

Exactly. There is no limit to how many shots a unit may take during an enemy's turn.

But still a limit that a defending unit can only fire 3 times at the same attacking unit ?

[Strela]

The manual says:
"Unlimited op fire (as in Squad Battles)."

Exactly. There is no limit to how many shots a unit may take during an enemy's turn.

But still a limit that a defending unit can only fire 3 times at the same attacking unit ?

There is a limit of three fires in the phasing players turn. There is unlimited fire during the AI controlled defensive fire phase.

One of the reason there is unlimited defensive fire is to prevent players from using an expendable unit to absorb the three shots of defensive fire and then bring forward other units with impunity.

David

[wiggum]

With "phasing players turn" you mean the players turn ?
So when i move my units any AI unit (enemy) can max. fire 3 times at the same of mine units ?
Sorry, i still dont get it...

[Strela]

With "phasing players turn" you mean the players turn ?
So when i move my units any AI unit (enemy) can max. fire 3 times at the same of mine units ?
Sorry, i still dont get it...

The 'non-phasing' player, ie the AI when you are doing your turn will not have a limit on the number of shots any of his units will have. It will only fire dependent on the actions you perform ie, when you move or fire.

Please note this is called 'defensive fire' and is different to fire done by you in your turn. 

David

[ComradeP]

For your units, during your turn:
1) Non-mortar and non-artillery units that have not moved during your turn can fire three times.
2) Mortar units and units that have moved during your turn can fire once or twice, depending on remaining movement points relative to their total movement points.
3) Artillery can fire once.

Also:
4) During your turn, all enemy units (on and off-map) can theoretically fire an unlimited number of times as opportunity fire, when your units take an action that can result in opportunity fire.
5) During the enemy turn, all your units (on and off-map) can theoretically fire an unlimited number of times as opportunity fire, when the enemy takes an action that can result in opportunity fire.

One difference is that, I believe, each action only draws opportunity fire from a specific enemy unit once in Panzer Battles, whereas in Panzer Campaigns a unit might expend all 3 of its opportunity fire attempts after a single action by a single unit.

[wiggum]

Thanks guys !

[GerryM]

There is a limit of three fires in the phasing players turn. There is unlimited fire during the AI controlled defensive fire phase.

One of the reason there is unlimited defensive fire is to prevent players from using an expendable unit to absorb the three shots of defensive fire and then bring forward other units with impunity.

David

I understand the motivation but the solution seems to go over board to the other side. If the defender's firing effectiveness was reduced after a number of shots it would be better. Physically it would be impossible for them to fire so often. In this non-real time game we have to think of the attackers all moving in at the same time.

Anyways I assume this is the way in many of JT's game so it will not be changed. Thanks for listening.

Gerry

[wiggum]

I think GerryM is correct.

A solution would be:

- First 3 shots defensive fire at 100% effectiveness
- Next 2 shots defensive fire at 50-100% effectiveness (randomized)
- Next 2 shots defensive fire at 25-100% effectiveness (randomized)
- All shots after that defensive fire at 0-100% effectiveness (randomized)

This way defensive fire effectiveness would decrease after 3 shots but because of randomized results you can never be sure how hard the defensive fire will hit you.

[Strela]

Guys,

Defensive fire is not guaranteed. Just watch how many times an individual unit fires and you will find it is much more rare in a standard situation.

If multiple units rush a single hex with a long LOS, then yes there might be three or more fires, but in practice most units will only get one or two shots off when engaged.

We have tested this pretty extensively and we have not seen an area where we are concerned - if you have some examples of problems then we're happy to review it.

David

[LFDLM]

One more question about this problem.

Can a unit that has no more MPs op fire ? If it can, is it with the same efficiency as a unit that has kept all its MPs ?