CS: Middle East Tournament - TOURNAMENT ENDED

[Scud]

Not hard, just time management on my end.

Dave

[Crossroads]

Why not, then. No hurry though, we're just getting started. Looks neat though!

[RADO]

I just started a PBEM with Panzerde. To try out something different, we are playing our game with all Optional Rules on but AF=OFF.

So maybe in the next rounds each pairing can agree their rules, and then once reporting the game would make a note which options were used. I am sure the various scenarios will play different with different options. Would be good to know that too.

I just saw this. I'm a strong supporter of EA. Some here are not. The tournament began with All Options except VV. As a point of order, what happens if two opponents don't want the same options? Will it default to the initial conditions listed?
I just want to be clear on this.

[Crossroads]

I just started a PBEM with Panzerde. To try out something different, we are playing our game with all Optional Rules on but AF=OFF.

So maybe in the next rounds each pairing can agree their rules, and then once reporting the game would make a note which options were used. I am sure the various scenarios will play different with different options. Would be good to know that too.

I just saw this. I'm a strong supporter of EA. Some here are not. The tournament began with All Options except VV. As a point of order, what happens if two opponents don't want the same options? Will it default to the initial conditions listed?
I just want to be clear on this.

Yessir. Unless both parties agree a separate rule set, the ones recommended by Scenario Description prevail.

[Scud]

I'm desperate for some educating. 

With 3/4's of the first scenario done, I'm finding my soviet tanks pretty worthless against my opponent's Israeli armor.

I'm curious to know if any other side B players are discovering the same thing. I might get a kill, slightly better chances a disruption or a forced retreat, but in most instances, even at extreme close range (side shot - 1 hex distance), the shells bounce off. The Israeli counter fire, just the opposite. One shot, no more T72.

Curious to know if it's my bad luck, or my misuse of the equipment (maybe both?). Historically, were the soviet tanks so outclassed?



Dave

[panzerde]

I'm desperate for some educating. 

With 3/4's of the first scenario done, I'm finding my soviet tanks pretty worthless against my opponent's Israeli armor.

I'm curious to know if any other side B players are discovering the same thing. I might get a kill, slightly better chances a disruption or a forced retreat, but in most instances, even at extreme close range (side shot - 1 hex distance), the shells bounce off. The Israeli counter fire, just the opposite. One shot, no more T72.

Curious to know if it's my bad luck, or my misuse of the equipment (maybe both?). Historically, were the soviet tanks so outclassed?



Dave

That was entirely my experience, too. It's basically why Petri and I decided to try the same scenario again with the armor facing rule turned off, to see if it makes a difference. Were still fairly early in the game, but it does seem to be making at least a little difference.

The T-72s are just easy meat against the Merkavas in this one. Even at point blank range I couldn't get kills as the Libyans, and at any sort of range the Israelis just trashed entire companies in one turn.

[Crossroads]

I'm desperate for some educating. 

With 3/4's of the first scenario done, I'm finding my soviet tanks pretty worthless against my opponent's Israeli armor.

I'm curious to know if any other side B players are discovering the same thing. I might get a kill, slightly better chances a disruption or a forced retreat, but in most instances, even at extreme close range (side shot - 1 hex distance), the shells bounce off. The Israeli counter fire, just the opposite. One shot, no more T72.

Curious to know if it's my bad luck, or my misuse of the equipment (maybe both?). Historically, were the soviet tanks so outclassed?



Dave

That was entirely my experience, too. It's basically why Petri and I decided to try the same scenario again with the armor facing rule turned off, to see if it makes a difference. Were still fairly early in the game, but it does seem to be making at least a little difference.

The T-72s are just easy meat against the Merkavas in this one. Even at point blank range I couldn't get kills as the Libyans, and at any sort of range the Israelis just trashed entire companies in one turn.

Yes, a bit too early to say how it will play out that way, keeping an eye on it for sure.

Regarding Merkava Is vs T-72s, their parameters are not that different:



Defensive settings are pretty much the same, while obviously Merkava's have the range for dancing around their opponents as a tactic. But I discussed that with Panzerde too, and he said he was engaging Merkavas at short range and seeing a handicap in results there as well.

So how is it with other games going on, how's the tank-vs-tank action there going?

[RADO]

I'm desperate for some educating. 

With 3/4's of the first scenario done, I'm finding my soviet tanks pretty worthless against my opponent's Israeli armor.

I'm curious to know if any other side B players are discovering the same thing. I might get a kill, slightly better chances a disruption or a forced retreat, but in most instances, even at extreme close range (side shot - 1 hex distance), the shells bounce off. The Israeli counter fire, just the opposite. One shot, no more T72.

Curious to know if it's my bad luck, or my misuse of the equipment (maybe both?). Historically, were the soviet tanks so outclassed?



Dave

That was entirely my experience, too. It's basically why Petri and I decided to try the same scenario again with the armor facing rule turned off, to see if it makes a difference. Were still fairly early in the game, but it does seem to be making at least a little difference.

The T-72s are just easy meat against the Merkavas in this one. Even at point blank range I couldn't get kills as the Libyans, and at any sort of range the Israelis just trashed entire companies in one turn.

Yes, a bit too early to say how it will play out that way, keeping an eye on it for sure.

Regarding Merkava Is vs T-72s, their parameters are not that different:



Defensive settings are pretty much the same, while obviously Merkava's have the range for dancing around their opponents as a tactic. But I discussed that with Panzerde too, and he said he was engaging Merkavas at short range and seeing a handicap in results there as well.

So how is it with other games going on, how's the tank-vs-tank action there going?

In my games the Israeli tanks have had a small advantage, but many times as Israeli, even at closer ranges, I have had a "No Result". In games outside this tournament I've used T-62's quite successfully against Israeli tanks.

[Crossroads]

^^This is my first game on Tourny set A, but for instance having played the Tourny Set B from both sides I was succesfully killing enemy armor both Merkavas and T-72s at a rate I was quite happy with. Those were with AF OFF which does play somewhat differenty but still.

[Warhorse]

T-72's virtually worthless against the Merkava, and there's so many of them!