Counter Battery Q

[Air Master]

I know I should probably know this...
And I am sure it must be already somewhere in here...
But can someone please explain to me the CB logic/routines in both SPWW2 and SPMBT?
I have played a couple of games with artillery that have very long range and were used historically for CB, e.g. British 7.2, US Long Toms and German 175mm - however, in a couple no CB was observed so they sat there wasting points.
Ditto similar experiences with MBT.
So far I have left them without any fire missions and I know my oppos batteries should be in range, e.g. 75mm, 25pdrs or 105mm but nothing happens.
Have I missed something?

[Weasel]

HI; I am not sure either. In two games I am running right now I have batteries with superior range to the enemy waiting to CB but nothing, but in a previous game CB occured with 5 turns of game start.

FROM THE MANUAL:

How do I fire counter battery fires on enemy off map batteries?

You (the player) do not, your gunners will attempt to locate off map batteries themselves, and allocate any units in range to CB fires.

For a battery to fire CB missions, it needs to be idle (not plotted to fire missions), it needs its crew quality to be good (better than 60 or so, and the higher the better), have HE ammo to hand, and to have equal or better range than the enemy battery in order to be able to reach the target. It also has to pass a chance roll. Off map artillery units range is shown as a number usually in the 200 series or more, 209 is longer range than say 205. Range information is found in the encyclopaedia entry for that battery.

AND

Direct Support is less responsive than normal arty, General Support even less so. The delay is longer for calls for fire, other than onto gold spots or as a pre game bombardment (their main use). Shifting fires costs a little more for these type of batteries and they are less likely to be in radio contact as they are theoretically shared with other formations than yours. As well, they are less likely to fire counter battery fires if left idle.

This is the big one, it appears that if you just buy and leave your artillery as Direct Support then the chance of them firing CB is reduced since they are tasked with supporting the boys. I always wondered why they had the "artillery under command' option.

[Air Master]

HI;  I am not sure either.  In two games I am running right now I have batteries with superior range to the enemy waiting to CB but nothing, but in a previous game CB occured with 5 turns of game start.  

FROM THE MANUAL:

How do I fire counter battery fires on enemy off map batteries?

You (the player) do not, your gunners will attempt to locate off map batteries themselves, and allocate any units in range to CB fires.

For a battery to fire CB missions, it needs to be idle (not plotted to fire missions), it needs its crew quality to be good (better than 60 or so, and the higher the better), have HE ammo to hand, and to have equal or better range than the enemy battery in order to be able to reach the target. It also has to pass a chance roll. Off map artillery units range is shown as a number usually in the 200 series or more, 209 is longer range than say 205. Range information is found in the encyclopaedia entry for that battery.

AND

Direct Support is less responsive than normal arty, General Support even less so. The delay is longer for calls for fire, other than onto gold spots or as a pre game bombardment (their main use). Shifting fires costs a little more for these type of batteries and they are less likely to be in radio contact as they are theoretically shared with other formations than yours. As well, they are less likely to fire counter battery fires if left idle.

This is the big one, it appears that if you just buy and leave your artillery as Direct Support then the chance of them firing CB is reduced since they are tasked with supporting the boys.  I always wondered why they had the "artillery under command' option.

[Air Master]

HI;  I am not sure either.  In two games I am running right now I have batteries with superior range to the enemy waiting to CB but nothing, but in a previous game CB occured with 5 turns of game start.  

FROM THE MANUAL:

How do I fire counter battery fires on enemy off map batteries?

You (the player) do not, your gunners will attempt to locate off map batteries themselves, and allocate any units in range to CB fires.

For a battery to fire CB missions, it needs to be idle (not plotted to fire missions), it needs its crew quality to be good (better than 60 or so, and the higher the better), have HE ammo to hand, and to have equal or better range than the enemy battery in order to be able to reach the target. It also has to pass a chance roll. Off map artillery units range is shown as a number usually in the 200 series or more, 209 is longer range than say 205. Range information is found in the encyclopaedia entry for that battery.

AND

Direct Support is less responsive than normal arty, General Support even less so. The delay is longer for calls for fire, other than onto gold spots or as a pre game bombardment (their main use). Shifting fires costs a little more for these type of batteries and they are less likely to be in radio contact as they are theoretically shared with other formations than yours. As well, they are less likely to fire counter battery fires if left idle.

This is the big one, it appears that if you just buy and leave your artillery as Direct Support then the chance of them firing CB is reduced since they are tasked with supporting the boys.  I always wondered why they had the "artillery under command' option.

Thanks Weasel; it just seems less responsive than it used to be under previous versions. I think I might spend some time doing a proper "blank map" analysis in the wee small hours. Will let you know how I get on.

[Scorpio_Rocks]

The difference in experience also plays a large part. If your battery is a higher experience level than the firing battery it is much more likley to find and fire on it.

[Weasel]

The difference in experience also plays a large part. If your battery is a higher experience level than the firing battery it is much more likley to find and fire on it.

That isn't quite right.  A gun battery must have XP of 60+ in order to CB, the higher the better chance of CB, but it is not compared against the enemy.

From the game manual.

[Walrus]

The difference in experience also plays a large part. If your battery is a higher experience level than the firing battery it is much more likley to find and fire on it.

That isn't quite right.  A gun battery must have XP of 60+ in order to CB, the higher the better chance of CB, but it is not compared against the enemy.

From the game manual.

Hi Guys

I always thought that the experience of the FOO was the key aspect to getting CB fire happening, that and being in range and in contact.
Now it seems that Direct Support is also a key.

Weasel and I have been doing a lot of PBEM scenario testing (great scenarios he has made BTW) and I managed to get some CB fire happening here and there, but it has been patchy to say the least.
I don't feel like it's a good use of resources to leave batteries free for CB if they are not going to actually do it.
I don't ever have 'spare' arty in a game that I can do without.

Interesting.
I wonder how AM's test will go?

[Scorpio_Rocks]

I stand corrected Weasel TY.

I don't believe the FOO is involved AT ALL in C/B fire, the batteries themselves work out the firings.

I have noticed (does anyone else get this?) that my first round of C/B fire is very effective 30-40 hits usually destroying the enemy battery, but after that does between 1 and 7 "hits" and is pretty ineffective.

[Weasel]

I find the CB message is too fast but Walrus always lets me know.

FOO plays no part at all. I think the big thing is to have the artillery as general support instead of direct (dedicated) support.