How do we make maps?

[Strela]

Compass Rose sent me an email today and asked how we make maps (based upon a comment I made in the colourisation thread).

Map making is simple but very time consuming.

The good news is that John Tiller has given us the tools to do the job pretty efficiently.

The first thing is to find an appropriate map.

There are so many map archives on the web these days we can usually find the correct period maps we need.

Once we have a source map we resize it. With four hexes being a kilometre in Panzer Battles we resize the map so that a kilometre is equivalent to the number of pixels in four hexes.

Now the fun bit starts. The editor allows us to place our source map in 'overlay'. This allows us to see the source map and 'draw' over it. With the press of the space bar we can hide the source map and see our handwork.

Here is an example of a source map with the roads and stream/gullies already done;





Here we can see the finished map after clicking  the space bar;






In a number of cases we can't get good enough typography maps. Fortunately Google now comes to our rescue and has a view with elevations. It's perfect as it shows 20 metre variations which is optimal for Panzer Battles. As this is a modern map, roads and built up areas will be larger than during the war, so we still need the source basic maps to layout a lot of the details.

Here is a source map built off Google maps. Also note that you can see the various elevation levels, within the editor;






And here are the contours that were created from the source Google map.






I always start with the contour map first and then add all the detail afterwards. It can take days to do a large map as you have to do multiple passes of the map to get all the details in.

That's the 5 minute tutorial....

David

[Xaver]

Thanks for the time you are investing in feed our urge to buy and play PzB3 

A little question, with the new program... i see you can mantein certain "art" diferent to the standar hex art that is present in game, i refer to the airfield with small planes, is this a new hex type (added to the terrain files) or is something diferent ala Close combat or SSI Battlefront (you port map and cut it in hexes with the program to edit maps and you define the hexes stats).

If is possible talk with the Big Boss and try he give you permission to test with PzB3 something like you did with PzB2 weekend info but starting earlier, maybe month info in first stages, and in general asking or searching future buyers feedback.

Thanks again for your time and good look with your hobby-work 

[Compass Rose]

Very, Very interesting!

Thanks for taking the time to create the tutorial

[wiggum]

I honestly think you need a better way to display height changes.
Maybe just make the tiles themselves look more noticeable different (like with MapMod for PzC).
Currently it looks way to busy and i painful to the eyes.

Maybe as addition to the black couture lines you can make visible also include those numbers in the center of the tiles or make it heat map style. Just do somethink about it.
Figuring out the height points is painful at the moment and the current high change hex sides look out of place, like a cliff.

[-72-]

This is more of a general comment regarding map-making, in that different map makers have different interpretations of the same thing.

I want to qualify this as I am definitely not meaning anything that David posted, but am talking more about some specific experiences elsewhere, and with working someone specialising in map making.  The technical process is the same as here, though.

I am weighing whether to remove or limit roads through major urban areas (this is pre-20th Century -different era) -this came to my attention as to a technique being used, and it makes sense; I'll expound on it later (like as in another time), when I have a map that I can put out there.

Another thing can be weighing up scale and elevation - or rather I was told that is where a lot of guys end up getting things wrong (I trust my map guy -he's been great ...).

Wiggum is talking about things that all can be changed with an art mod - and that goes for any series ... it isn't really part of the map creation process (not directly at any rate), because at that point you are talking about aesthetics, and not how a map is being built. That being said, it is actually a valid observation on any map - I don't know how many that I have seen (and even failed when drafting art) where the goal is to make something easily legible. :)  I guess my point is - is that is something for the graphics coordinator, as opposed to city X,Y, or Z is on the wrong side of the river... or maybe something along the lines of 'why does this river have an elevation increase (eg ... effectively a 'hill') on it?

It's a great little article.

[O.Schmidt]

I would also like to create maps too!
I would also buy the Mapmaker!
But where?

[Xaver]

Well, this is an old "fight", have the map edit tools, but in the moment not all series have even the OOB tools (Nap, FWW and i dont remember now if REN had them).

Is Tiller decision, i think is related with the idea of prevent full mods because they cut off sells (something false for me because is not the first game i know that born as mod and finish as full game that you can buy... i know a guy from other forum that started a Spanish civil war mod for revolution under siege and release it as full game, and later create the 30 years war game).

Other point is that mods are a free way to test if is interest in certain title or use engine for a diferent period, if you are scared of the work done by a guy for free... i doubt a guy alone can release the full content of a Tiller title and if in the end is something with nobody working on it is not possible lose money with something you never are going to release.

Returning to thread... here i have a little question about hexes+elevation... i dont know if is possible to made elevations easier to see reduce the size of border hexes to use the extra space to create more visible borders... something like you can see in "Steel panthers" for example... of course is an art point but maybe have an option to activate one version or other... sure help a lot.

[Pepe Botijo]

In comparison with other wargames, I don´t see many user-made scenarios around here. And most of then are done by the same guy (Volcano man). Restricted or complex map editor? I don´t know. Anyway if there´s a wish to attract new customers they should wonder the reason why it´s happening. Sometimes stop for a while the releasing machine and take a bit of fresh air from the outside is healthy.

[wiggum]

Anyway if there´s a wish to attract new customers they should wonder the reason why it´s happening. Sometimes stop for a while the releasing machine and take a bit of fresh air from the outside is healthy.

And thats the problem i think.
John Tiller does not want to attract new customers. Looks like he makes enough money anyway.
If they would want to attract new customers they would have updated the engine and graphics long ago.
What Strela does with the artwork is the maximum you can do with this engine and its tiny bitmaps.
A clean, modern and sharp looking 2D graphic engine + better (new!) sounds, thats what they would do if they wanted to attract new customers.

I'm pretty sure they only sell less then 500 copy's of every new PzC and PzB game released.

[-72-]

I would also like to create maps too!
I would also buy the Mapmaker!
But where?

I do work for JTS; in my case, 'map maker' is a person that specialises in making maps.

not all series have even the OOB tools

- this is incorrect - use notepad, it is all text based; arguably easier to use than a wysiwyg editor.  Just don't accidentally slip in a comma somewhere -it can royally mess up an OOB file (worse if you have to fix someone else's... and I have).

Other point is that mods are a free way t... not possible lose money with something you never are going to release.

Maybe... sure, but if you are going to put all of the effort into something -and I mean as a 'modder' - why would you chuck the thousands of dollars into research materials and software just to get some community accolades? Frankly I would wonder about guys with that type of time on their hands, with that sort of disposable income. Or put another way, if there is some way to recoup some of that -then why wouldn't you?  And then at that point I guess technically you are a 'bad' person because you are no longer a 'modder'.

Returning to thread... here i have a little question about hexes+elevation... i dont know if is possible to made elevations easier to see reduce the size of border hexes to use the extra space to create more visible borders... something like you can see in "Steel panthers" for example... of course is an art point but maybe have an option to activate one version or other... sure help a lot.

 

It takes some trial and error testing -but go for it -- create a mod to do it --- each series varies... what I am working on is going to be about converting 8 - 24 bit -which change things around some (probably a lot), but that isn't to say that if there is a hexside graphic out there that you want changed that you can't go and do it and see what happens.

From a work perspective I am not touching PzB graphics unless I want (or am asked) to show that it would be easy to add in another native graphics level to the series that I am working on -and then it would become more a matter of inserting the graphics that I am using -and creating a test bed as an example.  In my experience having examples is a decent way to make an effective presentation/proposal (in anything). But I wouldn't do it unless I knew that there was a possibility of making it happen - if not -- it does take up too much time.

But that is getting away from the point ... it should be possible to do what you want, Xaver - but you might have to find someone to do it for you.  I don't see anything that would technically stop it from happening.

-Personally I would love to use png files instead of bmp - I think it would be a lot more flexible (and allow for true transparent backgrounds).

art ... limits...

Don't be too sure - changing bmps to pngs would change around your limits  - I guess technically it would involve an engine change in that the programming would need to point to a different type of file - but your 'limit' would become changed markedly (written from the point of view of a person that does a lot of work with pngs).