True then and now

[Herr Straße Laufer]

A comment I made on June 8th 2008. This was in reference to variable visibility being thrust upon us, without option, in version 1.03. Eight years later we fight the same fights and are met with similar smugness.

I have not changed my belief. And it may just be intensified by that same imperial smugness.

"Pardon my comments. I'm not as much beating on anyone as I am trying to defend the game I love.

Does your "Beta Team" need expansion?
Do they need to understand "game scale"?
Do they think that all of "us" others will accept the evolution of the game into something it was never intended and something that kept us all playing it for so long?

I am puzzled by some of the changes and how we are told to wait for what is to come.
I am saddened that those who play it are not as involved and accepted into the "inner circle" that is attempting to alter what we thought was "pure" and "good".

It is like my analogy of the '57 Chevy having chrome added to it to make it a Belair. Wow! It just devalued the value of the '57 Chevy?
You can make a lawn mower go 60 miles per hour but, it will no longer work as a lawn mower.
They make Tractor Trailer "tractors" into drag racers and circle track racers but, they no longer can haul freight?

I am hoping that the "team" can take a step back and see that they are painting a mustache on the Mona Lisa?
If there are many more similar changes I may have to take a step back from the game and reload my old Talonsoft disks.
I feel we have too much that is now shoved down our throats that is making the game ... not THE game!

Please do not do things "out of scale" and make them part of the game engine. Make them an option if you are dead set on doing it? But, do not make it the "kings law" that will drive some of the most loyal customers out of playing the newest version of the game."

Nothing has changed in eight years?
Though we have been "told" that our wishes do not count unless they conform?
It still stands that comments do need to be made. However unaccepted by the team?

The above quote was over variable visibility and game scale. One that was initially offered as not optional and made part of the game toward the end of beta testing (similar to extreme assault) without much, if at all, testing.

Eight years later. The more things change the more they stay the same?

And, for those who do not like my analogies ... tough for you.

Also, I won't be using my old Talonsoft disks.




HSL

[Von Earlmann]

A comment I made on June 8th 2008. This was in reference to variable visibility being thrust upon us, without option, in version 1.03. Eight years later we fight the same fights and are met with similar smugness.

I have not changed my belief. And it may just be intensified by that same imperial smugness.

"Pardon my comments. I'm not as much beating on anyone as I am trying to defend the game I love.

Does your "Beta Team" need expansion?
Do they need to understand "game scale"?
Do they think that all of "us" others will accept the evolution of the game into something it was never intended and something that kept us all playing it for so long?

I am puzzled by some of the changes and how we are told to wait for what is to come.
I am saddened that those who play it are not as involved and accepted into the "inner circle" that is attempting to alter what we thought was "pure" and "good".

It is like my analogy of the '57 Chevy having chrome added to it to make it a Belair. Wow! It just devalued the value of the '57 Chevy?
You can make a lawn mower go 60 miles per hour but, it will no longer work as a lawn mower.
They make Tractor Trailer "tractors" into drag racers and circle track racers but, they no longer can haul freight?

I am hoping that the "team" can take a step back and see that they are painting a mustache on the Mona Lisa?
If there are many more similar changes I may have to take a step back from the game and reload my old Talonsoft disks.
I feel we have too much that is now shoved down our throats that is making the game ... not THE game!

Please do not do things "out of scale" and make them part of the game engine. Make them an option if you are dead set on doing it? But, do not make it the "kings law" that will drive some of the most loyal customers out of playing the newest version of the game."

Nothing has changed in eight years?
Though we have been "told" that our wishes do not count unless they conform?
It still stands that comments do need to be made. However unaccepted by the team?

The above quote was over variable visibility and game scale. One that was initially offered as not optional and made part of the game toward the end of beta testing (similar to extreme assault) without much, if at all, testing.

Eight years later. The more things change the more they stay the same?

And, for those who do not like my analogies ... tough for you.

Also, I won't be using my old Talonsoft disks.




HSL

I'm a bit confused here ED.........I thought Variable visibility and extreme assault were optional rules basically because of the above discussions?

VE

[Warhorse]

Yep, I actually play with them on all the time, my preference, not for everybody!

[Big Ivan]

Hey Ed,

I remember the original Talonsoft East Front. I think I even have a book around here which goes through the game start to finish and does a pretty decent job of explaining each of the original scenarios and what is best for both side as to how to play. I wish they would have made one for West Front but I don't think it ever happened. At any rate after playing the first few East Front scenarios, holy shit I was hooked forever.

Then came an expansion disk or update for EF, sorry I can't remember the name of it which gave us a few new units a whole bunch more scenarios. Some of them pretty damn good as I remember. Follow that by West Front and Rising Sun other theatres and more scenarios. Finally a third expansion disk I think with more scenarios bundled handling late war engagements and a whole bunch of scenarios around Odessa 1941. Followed by Divided Ground a project made in haste, had some following and even a mod for Vietnam which caught a number of eyes and play was on.

Somewhere after that if my old memory serves Talonsoft died and the system was in limbo for a time. Then someone came along (before Matrix I think) with another update giving us better off board aircraft mechanics, different troop quality, easier way to build bridges and a host of new scenarios.

Through all this the scenarios kept being built, the Blitz and Game Squad scenario data bases grew in size and everyone seemed to be happy but as you and I know wanted more & more.

Along comes Matrix, buys the rights to Talonsoft, bundles the whole kitten caboodle and markets it as JTCS with a couple of updates to 2.02 which is now the game we all love and enjoy in one form or another. They also made the whole system backwards compatible to handle the 2500+ scenarios out there.

They then tackle Divided Ground which lets face it left much to be desired as a distant child of EF, added some lovely graphics in 2D, more modern units, mucho scenarios, computer stability in play, AN ADAPTIVE A/I (Unfreaking believeable) and helicopters flying in different levels. Tempered with beta upgrades.

Through all this I never saw the 250 meter scale change or the platoon size unit change so I can only think they did listen to us! I'm not saying CSME is the total package but it sure shows an evolving game system to me. Its gone where Divided Ground couldn't even think about going and I believe for the better.

Will what is available in CSME be good for the new EF/WF/RS? I believe some of it but not all of it.

To use this analogy,

Today I drive a 2008 Jeep because I like the 4-wheel drive in winter and the gas mileage is not to bad. Its dependable and runs good. Would I love to have my 1970 Chevy Nova SS or 1980 Buick Regal back you bet your ass I would but I know from a practicality standpoint not a good choice in todays world. Back 40 years ago we had to constantly work on cars to keep them running. Today its kinda plug and play and as long as you keep up with minor maintenance they kind of run themselves. The automobile world evolved to what it is today and I guess we are kind of seeing that with the gaming world to, wouldn't you agree.

What is important to me is we gamers who cut our teeth on World War II board games eons ago and moved to computers in the '90's voice our constructive opinions about the new EF/WF/RS when it gets closer. My only fear is I hope I live long enough to see these games because they aren't just around the corner. Until that day I'll keep banging away at JTCS 2.02.

Thanks for hearing me out Ed,

Best Always!
John

[Scud]

Well said, John. I might also add, if not for Jason and the Matrix crew, the game would be dead, since the Talonsoft version became incompatible with the newer versions of Windows. How often we forget that.

Dave

[Schwerpunkt75]

"new EF/WF/RS when it gets closer"

Ok, what are we talking about here?

[Jason Petho]

Ok, what are we talking about here?

The next generation of the World War 2 Campaign Series

Jason Petho

[RedDevil]

Maybe I'm missing the Gist of this thread?

What I gather is the efforts to spruce up the CS series with some chrome and superglue aren't hated, but it's not a group hug consensus either. I think what some of us "wanted" was some fixes that would deliver more long term play-ability to an old warhorse as opposed to adding in more things that weren't entirely optional and then the reselling it as a new updated version. NOT a profitable or viable consumer driven process, But, I think that was the path it started out on and suddenly you fellows found the pavement and have been roaring right along. I think you forgot to look in the rear view mirror tho and remember where we all came from, and what we actually were wanting.

What you CSME fellows are doing is awesome, But I think perhaps what you need to look at, is to go make CS 2.0 .. walk away from the current game engine, build your own.. We will buy it if you build it right?... and if one of you feels a few hours in the code of the old CS game to fix a few more tidbits of errors and some patchy quirks that drive us old and grey never to be satisfied geezers looney.. is worth your time, we'd really try to repay you, I know we'd try.

If you're gonna give us the Super Sport version of CS, cool, but don't paint it green and tell me it goes 60MPH faster when it's still just CS.. Sell me the Version that makes my HDD scream for more and makes my opponents scream even more...

[Crossroads]

When JTCS 2.0 UPDATE was in the making, we provided a plethora of Coder and Developer Diaries and sneak peeks to keep everyone interested online as what was going on. There were no less than 28 Coder Diaries, I believe, and 8 Dev Diaries.

When CS:ME was in the making, we did the same. Something like a dozen Coder and Dev Diaries with a very active Sneak Peek thread.

Wish List thread are open and are, and always have been, actively observed by us as well.

With the new CS titles in the making, we'll do the same. At the moment we're QA:ing the CS:ME 1.02 official UPDATE, so not much on the other news at the moment. There will be, when we've got something to tell. There's a ton of detail to come out in future Diaries and Sneak Peek posts, I am sure.

Until then, why don't just enjoy what is out there without dwelling too much in what happened ten years ago, or what might happen months or even years from now.

Just my 0.02 obviously.

[Herr Straße Laufer]

Until then, why don't just enjoy what is out there without dwelling too much in what happened ten years ago, or what might happen months or even years from now.

Repeating errors will not be welcomed with open arms.
Thinking of all the "stuff" currently in ME to be ported over will not be welcomed at all.
Poorly made and tested scenarios are going to really suck.

It's my opinion. The day I am not entitled to it, here or anywhere else, will be interesting for that moment, eh?

Let them eat cake?
Oh, boy. Here we go again?

Some got it. Some did not.

"Hey, don't be upset that your neighbors are being led off to camps. It doesn't effect you now, does it?"
"Except for that one thing, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"
"Don't pay attention to the man behind the curtain. I am the Great Oz."

I stopped reading about ME/Divided Ground 2.0 when I gave away my disk.

I've got more comments but do not want to lose my posting privilege.



HSL