True then and now

[Jason Petho]

fix the foul ups you've created, yes.. you made some! FIX THEM

Please list them, in detail.

Provide files if necessary.

Thanks, RD!

[RedDevil]

Jason,

Just a prelim list for the time being, I will add as I consolidate and gather info.

Motorcycles - defense of 3?- can spot units without riders - even leaders can't do that.
empty trucks- the retreat kings- they can retreat 20 miles..- the retreat routine needs fixed.
Bunkers/ Pillboxes - +20 defense? - to what? - AT guns get creamed from range 3 MG shots and range 10 tank fire.. huh?, Inf units get disrupted and killed from T34 shots from 10 hexes out?
The hidden shooter at 50%? 25% maybe.. but not 50% ...really screws up the scenarios IMO
Armor facing- more retreats than kills when shooting in the rear- acceptable when frontal engagements, but in the rear should be a kill, not a retreat to Moscow party..
Various image issues - Names of commanders walk off to the left- can't even tell if it's a HAUPT or MAJOR at some points in game - other issues with missing images- start with Romania units.




** off note**
Campaign game- no sense in the prelim setups- units scattered to the wind - takes hours to set up- really takes the enjoyment out of it. (might not be you all doing, but it is something worth noting)
MCS OOB listings- all those Boats and Ferrys- not a single scenario require their use, but they are included in the OOBs for campaigns. you gotta set them up.
Mine engineers- can only lay 1 SP - no reloading?

[Crossroads]

Hey RD, following this up here if you don't mind:

Hey Boss - ( yeh you're still the boss )  

So is jim rose or dave brevard stopping in to redo their scenarios too? how about Von Niemack or Earl?
They've been around a lot longer than I have and their scenarios are basically teeth grinding at times with that  new hidden shooter thingy. Thing is.. they weren't designed to have a hidden shooter, they weren't tested with one either. You should know as you tested them yourself. So did I, for the Blitz CD stuff. No hidden shooter there to change up the results when we tested either.

You say, the game has changed- it should have just been patched, not changed? Change is for the next generation, or series.  Just MY opinion...

Can't really say I need to change up my scenario, when everyone else needs to redo theirs as well in order to match up? 

I'm glad to hear no DG code is being used, that game.. sucked.. LOL

I noticed you've picked up JTCS again after a while, so perhaps this will aid you in getting grips with the latest 2.02 version, if that's what you're using, and what's been changed since. 

HERE's a post I put together to have JTCS version changes in one place from 1.01 to 2.02. You will note the Hidden AT Guns were included in July 2008 with the 1.03 update. Listed are also the changes with 2.00, 2.01 and 2.02 which is why I posted this.

If you want to play some of the scenarios using the older versions, the post also includes all UPDATE downloads since 1.01. JTCS can easily be installed in multiple versions. I for instance have the current 2.02 in the standard path:

C://Matrix Games/John Tiller's Campaign Series

I then have ran the installer twice again, and added a version number to the path:

C://Matrix Games/John Tiller's Campaign Series 101/
C://Matrix Games/John Tiller's Campaign Series 104/

I have then downloaded the appropriate UPDATEs and run them against the respective installs.

Hope this helps.

[Herr Straße Laufer]

Jason,

Just a prelim list for the time being, I will add as I consolidate and gather info.

Motorcycles - defense of 3?-  can spot units without riders - even leaders can't do that.
empty trucks-  the retreat kings- they can retreat 20 miles..- the retreat routine needs fixed.
Bunkers/ Pillboxes - +20 defense? - to what? -  AT guns get creamed from range 3 MG shots and range 10  tank fire.. huh?, Inf units get disrupted and killed from T34 shots from 10 hexes out?
The hidden shooter at 50%? 25% maybe.. but not 50% ...really screws up the scenarios IMO
Armor facing- more retreats than kills when shooting in the rear- acceptable when frontal engagements, but in the rear should be a kill, not a retreat to Moscow party..
Various image issues - Names of commanders walk off to the left- can't even tell if it's a HAUPT or MAJOR at some points in game - other issues with missing images- start with Romania units.




** off note**
Campaign game- no sense in the prelim setups- units scattered to the wind -  takes hours to set up- really takes the enjoyment out of it. (might not be you all doing, but it is something worth noting)
MCS OOB listings- all those Boats and Ferrys-  not a single scenario require their use, but they are included in the OOBs for campaigns. you gotta set them up.
Mine engineers- can only lay 1 SP - no reloading?

Don't worry Randy. All of these will not be fixed in upcoming updates/patches to JTCS. Because they are killing JTCS.
We'll see if the new versions they create will contain the same issues? Lord knows that ME sure had them.

I'm playing a scenario where Romanian horses have blank counters when viewed in 2-D. They are horses in 3-D. They act as horses in 2-D but the counters are blank. I thought maybe I got an experimental "super FOW" accidentally put into my game.
And, if I am not mistaken horse can spot too. Herds of horses spotting and drawing opt fire are my favorite.
OOPS, I hope I did not give the team any ideas.
While they are at it maybe when they add the bodies, body parts, and medics that effect morale, they can add in the horse manure like during parades?

Sorry. Disclaimer. Just another Ed complaint post. Adds nothing to the conversation (just ignore it and it will go away).



Just

[RedDevil]

Well Ed, it's like any other game, once it stops making money, the powers that be stop having interests.. what we need is someone with coding skills to "sneak" in and do us a dirty coding that is only shared among the diehards with no evidence of "responsibility"

[RedDevil]

Kat man
I have nothing but respect for you and your dedication for the "company line"( I hope that's not a poor choice of words?) I just don't get the feeling you're a local feller with local plans..  politics.. you know?...

HOWever..
 Again the gist of the bitchin' is that we expected a fixin' and got a mixin' of new stuff and a plethora of chrome without the real meat being cooked and served.

Again as designers and coders, the mentality is different from the laymans' here, we just want to enjoy the savory, fall apart in my mouth, meat and potatoes.  We perhaps feel you fellows keep adding sauce and seasonings and eventually it don't taste right to an old redneck.. hence the complaints.

Bro telling me to install another copy of the game and play it my way, with my pals..  really?... how do you feel if MS tells you that with windows 10..  put a copy of 7 on and shush....

Don't take our ignorance or lack of there-in as a point of attack. We're not trying to test you. we just wanted our grand old game to be enjoyable for the rest of our lives. While the youngsters grope for a new Utopia with all kinds of graphical extras that really mean nothing to the guys who have seen and heard all before.

Are you certain you can carry that flag of yours without listening to the bugles, drums and gunfire?

Cheers man, you do what you see righteous, but don't tell me to put another copy on just to quiet me up/

[Crossroads]

Dev, why would you say I want you to shut up? I fully get where Ed's grief comes from too, he's explained it many times over.

We are here because we're here? You don't like a certain feature look for a version where it did not feature. I did not upgrade my Win7 laptop because I want to play DVDs. It stays. My desktop's seen W7, W8, and W10, I want to keep it up to the latest spec.

Hence I put the link out there. Hence I wrote that post at the Matrix. You want to enjoy an old scenario with specs it was designed for? Well run it with JTCS 1.02. Not much else that can be done. Very easy to do. All the links are there, the unit change log is there. I am not telling anyone to do anything. It is just a pointer. Don't want to do that, fine.

Bugles, drums, gunfire. You certainly haven't been here lately

It is all good. What took me a bit with surprise was I thought it was good news there's no JTCS 2.1 anymore. All the changes to old engine and that, not happening anymore.

Data values, unit data, there's still a ton of things there, it's a huge file system there. Motorcycles with defence values of 3 have been at least since 1.01, no one's noticed them until now in Dan's Haiku Corner. Data values can be corrected. Just no more major revisions. Which I thought would have been good news.

I get the concern about JTCS ladders, but honestly I don't see an issue there. As long as there's game reports going in, why take the effort to take it down? Maybe something for the Blitz Officers to answer, but it took 15 years since last Talonsoft game came out the ladders were finally removed. After a few notices to see if there's folks still out playing them as I recall.

[Crossroads]

Fair point about towing the company line, politics, though. No banter allowed for us lot. Need to keep my fingers strictly in-line when typing here. That's a lesson I've learnt. If that was what you meant by that. Too bad, really.

[Herr Straße Laufer]

What took me a bit with surprise was I thought it was good news there's no JTCS 2.1 anymore. All the changes to old engine and that, not happening anymore.

Data values, unit data, there's still a ton of things there, it's a huge file system there. Motorcycles with defence values of 3 have been at least since 1.01, no one's noticed them until now in Dan's Haiku Corner. Data values can be corrected. Just no more major revisions. Which I thought would have been good news.

I get the concern about JTCS ladders, but honestly I don't see an issue there. As long as there's game reports going in, why take the effort to take it down? Maybe something for the Blitz Officers to answer, but it took 15 years since last Talonsoft game came out the ladders were finally removed. After a few notices to see if there's folks still out playing them as I recall.

Huh? You were surprised that someone could think that it was not good news that you are abandoning and tearing apart JTCS?
"Changes" to the old engine is your word? Except for some of the fixes (which are truly given their props) most of what you guys did was "tinker" and make "drop ins" that were so unreal and out of scale it was jaw dropping.

Planes that did not really fly. Blocking hexes and having unlimited spotting. Bridge building engineers. Mine laying engineers. Extremely extreme assault that created unrealistic results (but justified by numerous words). All dropped in. "Here you go and have at it."
The retorts "oops we did not realize that those things would do that and there would be such push back", "we're making all optional", and "don't care that it would/did fracture the community of players", "this is what we are doing and you all will have to deal with it".

BTW, there were those who recognized some of the "inconsistencies", like the 3 strength point motorcycles, who just did not feel like reporting them. Especially after their experiences with reporting other issues.
Who would want to be seen as just a complainer for that?

And, you "get" the concern over the gaming ladders?
What concern? The old will fade and the new take over. Heck, years ago players left CS to flock to CM. All for various and different reasons. Even now players are moving to Panzer Battles.
The original East Front game was not played in years. It faded. I'm sure that ten years from now JTCS will have faded too.
But, it will last as long as some diehards are willing to support it, through play and/or "tinkering" to keep it going.

I just see it as the "team" (you guys) moving on and doing their/your thing. While others stay away from the new and keep the JTCS fire burning.
And, I will admit, I may purchase the separate game to give it a go. If it is CSME/Divided Ground 2.0 I may just be giving someone that disk too.
I won't try to predict the future but, a look at the recent past says a lot about what the future might hold?

HSL
(Another of Ed's complaint posts)

[Jason Petho]

Since noone from the original team is still around, except me, I take full responsibility for the foul ups that happened with the initial releases. No need to pass the blame to anyone else when they had nothing to do with it.

Valuable lessons learned indeed. Some things were out of my control at the time, but with the new team, things are a thousand fold better.

Are we perfect? Of course not. 

Will things change? Yep. You bet. 

Will we listen to feedback and customer desires? When it is civil, you bet. 

Will we make everyone happy? Nope. 

Mind you, with CSME, of all the units sold, there has only been one who didn't like it, so we are trying at least! 

Will we release an unofficial mod that tweaks a few of the issues with CS 1.02? Yep, probably. 

Will we turn our focus on the new CSWW2 series? You bet. Will it be up everyone's alley? Nope, probably not. 

Will we try and bring new players to the Blitz? Yep, for sure.