Some controvesy (for fun) no offence meant

[typhoon]

Alright at the risk of sounding like a spoilt child. I want Panzer Campaigns to give me World War II or at least the whole European part of it. Of all the computer Wargames I have ever bought this is probably the only series I continue to come back to and I hate to think of the number of hours I've spent playing PBEM with it. Nothing else quite does the trick so why can't I have what I want. I know it's a great deal of extra work but some tweaking of scale and maybe the essence of this game could encapsulate WWII at the grander scale.
    I know the Total War series tried and I so wanted to like it I did indeed fall in love with the idea of it but as a game it never quite did what this the PZ series still does. As for Panzer Battles I have no doubt they are excellent I'm yet to try them but for me going down in scale is a move in the wrong direction. The whole thing I believe is what many Wargammers still want to see done really well. Give me Panzer campaigns with production and some strategic decisions I have a few years left still to play such a game and I've waited a lifetime for it to come along. Thoughts welcome controversy intended and debate encouraged :-)

[Kool Kat]

Gents:

Why take a fantastic game system like Panzer Campaigns and try to make it into something that it is not?  

Especially, when there are strategic-level games on the market that have production and strategic decision-making elements.

An excellent game system that comes to mind is the Strategic Command World War 2 Series.

BTW, no offence taken, but seriously you really should investigate the strategic-level games out there.

[Strela]

Alright at the risk of sounding like a spoilt child. I want Panzer Campaigns to give me World War II or at least the whole European part of it. Of all the computer Wargames I have ever bought this is probably the only series I continue to come back to and I hate to think of the number of hours I've spent playing PBEM with it. Nothing else quite does the trick so why can't I have what I want. I know it's a great deal of extra work but some tweaking of scale and maybe the essence of this game could encapsulate WWII at the grander scale.
    I know the Total War series tried and I so wanted to like it I did indeed fall in love with the idea of it but as a game it never quite did what this the PZ series still does. As for Panzer Battles I have no doubt they are excellent I'm yet to try them but for me going down in scale is a move in the wrong direction. The whole thing I believe is what many Wargammers still want to see done really well. Give me Panzer campaigns with production and some strategic decisions I have a few years left still to play such a game and I've waited a lifetime for it to come along. Thoughts welcome controversy intended and debate encouraged :-)

Well as one of the designers that knows what is involved in building monster games with strategy options etc, I'd like to give my opinion.

In Moscow '42 I built what was probably the largest series of campaigns the PzC system has seen, based on Fall Kreml. There were probably more forces and more choices than any campaign released before - all on one of the largest maps ever.

If you check the threads here and importantly the scenarios database, no one has reported playing these. Maybe, it was an uninteresting situation, but this shows up in other games in the series were the vast majority of decent sized campaigns are rarely, if ever played.

I put it down to player fatigue, ultimately these monsters need a group of dedicated players and that's hard to find and maintain over time - going bigger would just increase the challenge.

Happy to be corrected but I think we're hitting the limit of what battalion/company can handle.

David

[Mr Grumpy]

It has always been a nightmare to find an opponent for a big CG who can go the distance without RL throwing a spanner in the works.

Very lucky at the moment to have a 5 player EP14 CG going and we just passed a 100 turns with files passing back and forth very rapidly.

[typhoon]

To Strela I applaud all his efforts and I'm a big fan of Moscow 42 and the grand scope it captures. Though I would argue that PZ could go up in scale to division and Corp level with a map scale to match so the number of units and size of map may even be reduced. Yet the firing fatigue command rules could much remain the same and men might well be able to be tracked at battalion level in divisions with a tweek so that replacements can be allocated by the player where required. The decisions would more involve where to move those divisions east west desert or maybe only a one front at a time war.
    I admit to knowing nothing about game design or codeing but the PZ system feels like it could fit a strategic level war with alright a good deal vof work on the air and naval side of things (btw why has no one ever made a game covering the battle of the Atlantic or the naval war in the Med great Naval battles is as close as it got I think).
    As for Strela and Mr Grumpy on the matter of opponents I agree mostly but if the game is good enough you will find opponents War in the Pacific AE proves that. Though I must bow to the point that real life can often get in the way of a good game.Either way thanks for listening and taking the time to reply to this dreamer was a night I had no turn to play so posted out of fun

[typhoon]

Gents:

Why take a fantastic game system like Panzer Campaigns and try to make it into something that it is not?  

Especially, when there are strategic-level games on the market that have production and strategic decision-making elements.

An excellent game system that comes to mind is the Strategic Command World War 2 Series.

BTW, no offence taken, but seriously you really should investigate the strategic-level games out there.

Kool I have explored the Strategic market from SC2 to hearts of iron in all its manifestations. World in Flames CEAW Strategic War in Europe and Ron Dockrells valiant attempt World War two in Europe each of these has merit and lots of positives. Though none has the ebb and flow that the Panzer campaigns series brings to the table. I admits I mightg be trying to place a square peg into a round hole but I want to maintain as much of the system as possible but up the scale and scope of the game.

[Ocito80]

I too have yearned for such a beast to come into existence. WitP, playing Japan, is the best game available that comes remotely close enough to scratching that itch for me.

If they could ever get the AI to effectively use roads, then maybe, just maybe I'd recommend expanding PzC beyond its current scope.

I always felt the next evolution of PzC would be with a linked campaign option. Something similar akin to what JohnTillers CW games have, or PanzerCorps. PzC is well setup for it. But instead of a single linear path, multiple paths would be taken. Think Close Combat series.

This really is the best option (in my view) for playing a large campaign, by breaking it down into smaller pieces. It would still be missing a production/unit buying option, but allow for losses, fatigue etc.. to carry over from area to area. And still permit the use of additional strategic options. Oh, and the kicker, it would be multiplayer capable. Anyway, this is what i'd like to see when I dream. :)