1201_01a Close Call at Kubinka HTH

[ComradeP]

Randomized retreat priorities make it more difficult to force defending units into a certain direction, but it can sometimes cause your units to pocket themselves as well.

As an aside: the last victory dialog you posted is for turn 4, you posted it earlier.

[Plain Ian]

Randomized retreat priorities make it more difficult to force defending units into a certain direction, but it can sometimes cause your units to pocket themselves as well.

As an aside: the last victory dialog you posted is for turn 4, you posted it earlier.

Yep my units did a good job pocketing themselves. It is a bit frustrating but its the same for Eldar and there may come a time when he retreats the wrong way. 

I'm finding it tough to play with locking ZOC. Even after playing many years of boardgames where this is a standard rule, this must be the first Panzer campaign game I've played with it. Interestingly although you cannot move from ZOC to ZOC, you can assault from a ZOC to ZOC. By this I'm not meaning the ZOC of the unit you are assaulting. I mean you may be in the ZOC of a unit and assault a different unit which technically is moving ZOC to ZOC.

I've updated the VP Dialogue. I also updated the map and the comments slightly. The map I posted earlier did not quite match the comments. (assaults)

I'll try and post my moves before I go out tonight.

[ComradeP]

Without locking ZOCs, it would be difficult to destroy units, though mauling them with direct fire would still be possible.

The problem in Eastern Front games with locking ZOCs comes from the Soviets having fewer units than the Germans (German divisions tend to be larger and they can breakdown units) which makes it difficult to place units in a second or third row behind the frontline that you could move in case a frontline units ends up in a ZOC. It won't help in situations where units pocket themselves, but the Soviets have difficulties with extracting units after moving a unit in so the ZOC locked unit can move due to having fewer on-map units. As the units that were pocketed in your situation were already assaulted several times, having a unit around that could move into a German ZOC so your stack could move into that unit would not have made much of a difference in terms of how high your losses would've been.

Having fewer individual units also makes German assaults easier as they have to Disrupt fewer units to be able to dislodge the defender. Having to Disrupt a larger stack can seriously slow down an offensive.

Which PzC games do you own by the way? I see you own East Prussia '14 as well. Would you be up for playing the Clash of Empires campaign scenario at some point?

[Plain Ian]

Without locking ZOCs, it would be difficult to destroy units, though mauling them with direct fire would still be possible.

The problem in Eastern Front games with locking ZOCs comes from the Soviets having fewer units than the Germans (German divisions tend to be larger and they can breakdown units) which makes it difficult to place units in a second or third row behind the frontline that you could move in case a frontline units ends up in a ZOC. It won't help in situations where units pocket themselves, but the Soviets have difficulties with extracting units after moving a unit in so the ZOC locked unit can move due to having fewer on-map units. As the units that were pocketed in your situation were already assaulted several times, having a unit around that could move into a German ZOC so your stack could move into that unit would not have made much of a difference in terms of how high your losses would've been.

Having fewer individual units also makes German assaults easier as they have to Disrupt fewer units to be able to dislodge the defender. Having to Disrupt a larger stack can seriously slow down an offensive.

Which PzC games do you own by the way? I see you own East Prussia '14 as well. Would you be up for playing the Clash of Empires campaign scenario at some point?

I own most of the title. I'll update my profile with which ones.

EP '14. Mmmh I bought this because it was a bargain for us in Britain. The $£ exchange rate was quite good and John Tiller download meant that there was no added customs duty. I thought the games would be simpler and easier to play but found the opposite? I didn't mind the slower 'pace' but struggled with some of the mechanics. I possibly did not persevere. I'll think about your offer.

[Plain Ian]

Russian Turn 5



Sorry but I've gone from one extreme to the other with the map. I might stick to 3D but just show sections instead of the whole map which was probably too big. Here is a high level 2D of the situation. 

My artillery targeted a range of his units. As usual the mighty 138th was used against a 292nd unit in clear terrain SE of Myakshovo.

Front Line: I had no option really but to fall back with both the 32nd and 222nd Divisions. I originally intended to hold the 2/774th (disrupted) in place, but the 3/787th was Disrupted during a fire fight with the 258th Pioneers. (last shot!) I’ve deployed the 689th AT just behind the 3/787th. I'm not convinced that using AT as a screen is a good idea but it might be able to shoot and scoot if the infantry moves up adjacent.

German casualties are almost at 1,000. I reckon each of his front line Bn’s has lost 50-60 men. Hopefully he will maybe push up one Bn at Navaya this turn and rest the rest so he can harass me during the night turns?  

22nd Tank Bde moved up. The 1/22nd Tank (BT-5) has secured the north eastern of the woods just above Sememychi. It’s just out of range of its Bde HQ. (5)  The Mot Rifle Bn and T-60 Bn have moved up. I will try to deploy them in the woods hex just to their south although I think the Motor Rifle unit will not manage that?

25th Tank Bde also brought forward. The 1/25th (BT-5) joins the Fixed sappers in the unnamed village west of Akulovo. The Motor Rifle Bn has been kept in the rear at the moment.  The HQ moved up to keep everyone in range plus support any possible moves by the 2/25th Tank Bn towards Navaya.

The 666th Art (222nd Div) will be pulled out of the way to free up the Navaya-Kubinka road.

VPs and Losses

[Plain Ian]

German Turn 6 - Dusk



Sememychi now invested. The defenders 2/322nd actually disrupted on first direct fire. However they did give reasonable return fire plus received artillery support. He used artillery at the end.

Elsewhere the German 7th Div followed up and kept up the pressure. But he took more losses than he dished out plus one of his units Disrupted. (7th Div is B morale) Not sure if I can take advantage of this by assaulting but both the 2/17 and 3/113th are available. I can’t see any advantages from it. 

The good news was that the 1/113th and 2/113th recovered from Disruption this turn. 
  


The German MG unit of the 258th discovers my 689th AT unit. I lose 1 gun to direct fire and he uses a lot of artillery on it to kill another 6 guns. 7 guns lost 3 left and the unit is disrupted with fatigue 87. Well I guess this saved a few other units receiving artillery but I doubt I would have lost 70 men. (1 gun is equivalent to 10 men in Pz C) - I edited this bit -

The 258th Pioneers bugged out opposite my 3/787th. 

All along this front he moved up and there were sporadic fire fights. The 3/787th was not assaulted? I pulled back the 4th Sappers and 1/774th anticipating this but it didn’t happen? The 4th Sappers are still Ammo Low. 

A German 258th Battalion (A morale) was Disrupted by return fire losing -1 man? 

The 20 men in the cut off 1/757th and 2/757th went down fighting to the end. They managed to take a German with them. Hooorah.

I’m debating whether its worth trying to move the 689th AT. It might get into travel mode but wont get far on the RR. 

I’m also wondering if the 1/25th could have reached hex A last turn. That would have solved a lot of problems. It doesn’t look like he is going to flank Navaya. Only a Pioneer unit. He is more occupied with Sememychi anyway.

VP and losses



I'll see if I can do my turn now.

[Plain Ian]

Russian Turn 6 – Dusk



The 32nd Division left wing folds back towards Boldino.

My artillery concentrates on the German 292nd at Sememychi. The 1/25th (30 x BT-5) of 25th Tank Bde moves up to support Sememychi and the defenders will make a last ditch defense of the village. The tanks will allow the defenders to escape from the assault.

222nd stays in place mostly. The 1/774th pulled back and possibly will redeploy north if it recovers. The 3/757th will have to tough it out and hope he doesn’t assault. The 3/787th fell back to cover the left wing. The 689th AT made a rash move and will shortly not be part of my OOB.

All quiet at Naro-Fominsk. I did think of pulling out 2/787th completely and sending it north on the Bekasovo road. I decided to pull it back instead to woods to the east. If no threat from him in this directionby dawn I will send them north.

VP and losses

[Plain Ian]

German Turn 7 – Night



German 7th Division did not follow up the Russian 32nd nor did it fire with any of its units in contact?

At Sememychi he eventually assaulted after a short artillery barrage. He reserved most of his artillery for the tanks of the 1/25th. The BT-5 doesn’t have a very high defensive strength and the Bn lost 4. The assault itself was quite even (-13/-14) and he lost 9 before the assault in op fire. The 2/322nd lost 63 men in the defense of the village but is still in reasonable condition with Fatigue at 88.
 


It was a relatively quiet night for the 222nd Division as well. Artillery took out 1 man and a 45mm ATG of the 878th AT Rgt. The German 258th withdrew after a brief fire fight.

The 689th AT Rgt had a nervous few hours waiting for the sound of the Germans following up their withdrawal.....but it looks like they have got away.
 
Looks like Eldar will rest and resume at dawn?
 
VP and losses

[Plain Ian]

Russian Turn 7 - Night



I tried not to make too many moves as it burns fatigue but I ended up making quite a few.

I only had 3 artillery available and only two had the range to reach Sememychi. The results were reasonable. The 1/25th Tank Bn fired twice and retreated. The 3/322nd pulled back. (its Disrupted...I forgot to put on the Disrupted highlighter before I took the snap shot)

I made minor adjustments in the 222nd sector, moved up 4th Sappers (still Low Ammo) and pulled back 3/757th. The 2/25th has moved into position to the north of 4th Sappers.

22nd Tank Bde HQ brought forward so all of its units are within 2 hexes. the 22nd Motor Rifle Bn went into the woods, the 2/22nd came out of the woods and went to join the 1/22nd. This was to prevent the 1/22nd being trapped with its back to the lake IF he advanced......unlikely I know.

I pulled some units of the Russian 32nd Division further back, but maintained contact with the German 7th Division. I thought about pulling them out of contact but decided to leave them. He didn't fire at me last turn so I did not fire back this turn.

Oh and the 689th AT scuttled to safety behind the 3/787th.


VP and losses.

[ComradeP]

I see there's an _alt version of this scenario as well which might use the McNamara attack values that are now standard.

If you own Moscow '42 as well, it might be interesting to compare this to Naro Fominsk, where the German goals are again rather ambitious considering the weather conditions. The initial frontline is different from this scenario, even though it starts on the same date.