Confused about combat results

[John57]

Hi, After playing FOG2 I've decided to dig out my old AW games again.

I'm really enjoying them but the combat results seem at odds with the manual.

I see a lot of Attacker follows up messages but hardly any units recoiling or retreating.

What usually happens is the defender becomes disrupted but stays put and the attacker follows up and becomes disrupted,
but not in an uncontrolled advance.



Once a had a Legionary unit attack a unit in the rear, killed 9 troops, got the attacker follows up message, disrupted then withdrew and turned away !

As I see it in the manual it says that units only become disrupted in combat if in uncontrolled advance or attacked from the rear, they should recoil in combat and not disrupt and stay in place.

Also in the Reaction test results it says that only Irregular troops should get in an uncontrolled advance but my Legionaries do quite often.

Sorry for the long winded questions !

[John57]

More testing against Gaul warbands and experienced Phalangites with experienced Legions.

The only results are disrupted but staying in place with the opponents following up, or routing.

This is either a bug or the manual is wrong.

[Titus]

More testing against Gaul warbands and experienced Phalangites with experienced Legions.

The only results are disrupted but staying in place with the opponents following up, or routing.

This is either a bug or the manual is wrong.

My apologies for not responding to your question for so long. I did not realise but I have not checked this forum for almost 12 months. I have spent my time focusing on the creation of a new Napoleonic computer wargame series called 'Marching Eagles'. A further update on 'Marching Eagles Waterloo' is due out any day now. A new game in the series is scheduled to be published in July.
Now I have seen your questions I diverted my attention back to the Ancient Warfare series to check on the programme code:
Referring to your comment -
I see a lot of Attacker follows up messages but hardly any units recoiling or retreating.

What usually happens is the defender becomes disrupted but stays put and the attacker follows up and becomes disrupted,
but not in an uncontrolled advance.


'Attacker follows up' message is seen on the Combat Results box only when a unit reaches a state of 'Uncontrolled Advance'. 'Uncontrolled Advance' may occur due to a morale test result and a morale test occurs during combat. A unit in a state of 'Uncontrolled Advance' can not move forward if a enemy unit is in the hex to the front of the friendly unit. However, once the hex to the front of the friendly unit is cleared the unit will move forward given its 'Uncontrolled Advance' status.
Given the explanation above, I agree the phrase 'Attacker follows up' is misleading if the enemy to the front does not recoil / retreat or rout from its position. If the enemy unit does fall back, the phrase is accurate as the friendly unit will advance.
To address your observation - Once I had a Legionary unit attack a unit in the rear, killed 9 troops, got the attacker follows up message, disrupted then withdrew and turned away !
- This is possible if the Legionary unit in combat reached a state of 'Uncontrolled Advance' but the enemy did not fall back on receiving the 9 killed. The enemy then strikes back and will cause some loss to the Legionary unit. This could not be from the enemy unit attacked in the rear but could have occurred from other adjacent enemy units facing or partially facing the attacker. If that Legionary unit loss is over 10% of the strength of the unit the unit undergoes a morale test and may withdraw and/or may become disrupted. I set up a test game to review this and I noticed one of the Legionary units was pushed back by the pikemen on several occasions but was able to move back in for more combat on my order.
Regarding your comment - Also in the Reaction test results it says that only Irregular troops should get in an uncontrolled advance but my Legionaries do quite often.
I agree there are many occasions when regular units get in an 'Uncontrolled Advance' state. The manual needs correcting. Regular Experienced Legionaries do get in an 'Uncontrolled Advance' status but Regular Veteran Legionaries rarely reach 'Uncontrolled Advance'.
On your comment - As I see it in the manual it says that units only become disrupted in combat if in uncontrolled advance or attacked from the rear, they should recoil in combat and not disrupt and stay in place.
- Units recoil on a bad morale test result which could be caused if they loose >10% of their strength in one attack from one opposing unit. As I mentioned above, I did see this when a Legionary unit was attacking the front of a pike (phalangite) unit. However, if the unit can not retire to the hex behind due to overstacking limitations or impassable terrain then the unit does not recoil. Note - if a unit is attacked in its rear then its normal path of retreat / recoil back towards its own baseline is not possible and the unit may as a result fail to move out of the way of the enemy unit attacking it in the rear. I have seen this happen to phalangite units.
I have not updated the Ancient Warfare games since 2012 but I will look into making an update when I can get some time - probably in August - to address the points above.
Regards,
Paul