AI Artillery Spotting

Zoetermeer · 08-29-2019, 01:45 PM,

Is the AI given some special advantage in this regard? I am approaching Vitebsk with the 20. Motorized and I have two infantry regiments in an elevated position about 10km south of the city. They are being subjected to devastating artillery fire, but I have no idea where it's coming from and don't see how any enemy unit can be spotting them. There are no enemy units within at least 7km in any direction, and the one I do see is to the west and surrounded. I have no idea how to either get my units in cover so they are hidden, or send some people to silence these guns and/or their spotters.

I attached a screenshot with my units being targeted circled in red. https://imgur.com/kB6J5Qh

Green · 08-29-2019, 07:55 PM,

Did you notice if the units were actually shown as being Spotted?

It is possible that they have been spotted by Air Recon. Or depending on the scenario you are playing there may be Dust Spotting. If you are using the Indirect Fire and Air Strikes By The Map optional rule, then any hex in range is valid whether Spotted or not. I assume it was definitely artillery and not air support?

I cannot think of anything else off-hand but there is bound to be a good explanation. I know next to nothing about the AI but have never heard that it breaks the rules in any way and would be surprised if it did.

Zoetermeer · 08-29-2019, 11:56 PM,

I have no optional rules enabled that relate to this (only explicit supply and night fatigue). I am pretty sure it's artillery, just based on the sound effects I hear when these strikes happen (and their volume, as this is Smolensk in early July so I expect the Soviets to have almost no air support).

When you said "did you notice if your units were shown as being spotted", what do I use to see that? Thanks!

Zoetermeer · 08-30-2019, 12:53 AM,

I think I found this, using the "spotted units" button in the toolbar. None of these infantry units are spotted so I am still confused. I'm not sure if dust spotting would lead to my units being highlighted as "spotted" but I can't imagine they were dust-spotted from 11km away.

I was able to find a stack of enemy artillery in Vitebsk, using one of my forward recon units -- so perhaps they're the culprits. If so though I don't see how these strikes are possible.

wildb · 08-30-2019, 02:54 AM,

Using the menu option view, shade, visible hexes - you will be able to ascertain the possible location of the spotters. For example:

A unit in hex 16,51 can see hexes 16,55 and 17,55.
A unit in hex 18,51 can see hex 18,55.
A unit in hex 21,53 can see hexes 17,55 and 18,55.

Green · 08-30-2019, 06:01 AM,

(08-30-2019, 12:53 AM)Zoetermeer Wrote: I think I found this, using the "spotted units" button in the toolbar. None of these infantry units are spotted so I am still confused. I'm not sure if dust spotting would lead to my units being highlighted as "spotted" but I can't imagine they were dust-spotted from 11km away.

I was able to find a stack of enemy artillery in Vitebsk, using one of my forward recon units -- so perhaps they're the culprits. If so though I don't see how these strikes are possible.

Dust Spotting does not cause a unit to be Spotted in the normal sense but does allow for it to be targeted if all necessary conditions are met. The same applies to Air Recon. The user manual says;

"There are two types of spotting results: the enemy unit may be spotted in detail, or it may simply be spotted as an Unknown unit. An Unknown unit is marked with question mark graphics. An Unknown unit may be targeted for Indirect Fire and Air Strikes, but the combat results will not be known."

All this appears to be irrelevant in this particular case but to find if Dust Spotting is in effect, you can check the Parameter Data. In the "#0708_03s_Vitebsk_Orig" scenario, for example, Dust Spotting is 100% for both sides. Exactly how far away this can be seen, I am not sure but I have a feeling it is quite far.

Green · 08-30-2019, 07:41 AM,

I assume the situation you are describing is that presented to you at the start of your turn, following the turn of the AI. Is it possible that the units in question that are not now spotted were actually spotted during the Soviet turn by units that subsequently moved out of sight during that turn? This would explain it.

Zoetermeer · (This post was last modified: 08-30-2019, 08:06 AM by Zoetermeer.)

I think that could be possible. I don't want to cheat and turn off FOW, but I'd be surprised if the Soviets have any sort of mobile recon elements in this area. I think I sent a motorcycle unit almost up to the southern edge of the city and didn't find anything. The only place I could see these units being spotted would be from somewhere west of the Luchesa, and south of the Dvina.

**Ricky B** · 08-30-2019, 01:22 PM,

(08-29-2019, 01:45 PM)Zoetermeer Wrote: ...the one I do see is to the west and surrounded. …

So the surrounded status has no impact on spotting. And my eye counts it as being 5 hexes to some of the units in the circle, but maybe it is the furthest in your circle being hit? From what I recall, the game manual states somewhere that dust spotting doubles the current vis range for the dust being visible, so as long as the current vis is at least 4 hexes, the isolated Soviet units are likely the spotters.

Rick

Lowlander · 08-30-2019, 05:16 PM,

The Russian have really good long range artillery, 210mm, 152mm gun and 122mm gun, as to how effective they were in action early war is a different matter.