Night Distribution Percentage

[Mr Grumpy]

That's interesting information and I have no doubt you are correct for PzC, however in FWWC Ed told us that night assaults would automatically disrupt the attackers and so far this is exactly our experience while playing/testing FWWC?

However for F14 and EP14 the night disruption percentage was 100% so maybe that was the reason? However for S14 the percentage has now been dropped to 70% (and this will be the same for F14/EP14 after they are updated) so maybe we might see this now change?

It was Ed's understanding that the night disruption rule mechanics were the same for FWWC and PzC.

In my opinion units should be automatically disrupted after a night assault.

[ComradeP]

From the Serbia '14 user manual, page 45:

All assaults at Night result in automatic Disruption of the attackers.

It depends on the series whether there's automatic disruption after a successful assault.

If an attacker assaults, moves into a hex after removing the defender, and is Disrupted, it's due to any night time Disruption penalties that come into play after the assault itself. Disruption when preparing the assault or resolving it comes from the normal assault or (in)direct fire mechanics.

[Mr Grumpy]

From the Serbia '14 user manual, page 45:

All assaults at Night result in automatic Disruption of the attackers.

It depends on the series whether there's automatic disruption after a successful assault.

If an attacker assaults, moves into a hex after removing the defender, and is Disrupted, it's due to any night time Disruption penalties that come into play after the assault itself. Disruption when preparing the assault or resolving it comes from the normal assault or (in)direct fire mechanics.

And that is exactly as I thought it worked in FWWC, the only thing I am wondering is that Ed was sure the mechanics of the rule was the same for PzC but if PzC players are assaulting at night without suffering disruptions (be that from this rule or the assault resolution result) then that suggests that this feature in FWWC and PzC work in different ways?

[Strela]

I can’t confirm night assault disruption in PzC at this point, but everything Ed has asked for has ended up in the most recent PzC builds that I can see.

If that’s the case I would expect it to appear whenever we get to another patch cycle.

I’ll try and find out and report back..

David

[Volcano Man]

Ah yes, units will automatically disrupt in night assaults, even successful ones (but they will take the hex though). I just verified it with A quality units and in several successful assaults they all disrupted.

My first thought here and now when I read the comments was that a successful night assault's advance would be treated like a normal move, but this is no the case.

IIRC, the behavior is that if the Night Disruption percentage is non-0 value (ie. a value between 1-100%), then assaults units will cause disruption when the units advance. I recall now that the rationale is that an assault would be much more disruptive than just simply moving, so the advancing units will become disrupted if Night Disruption is active (which it is active, if the value is non-0).

That said, keep in mind that when Night Disruption was introduced for the first time in F14 and the FWWC series, there was not a probability associated with it: it happened all the time as if the value was 100%. Later on, a probability was introduced, and quality modifiers as well, which makes sense to me - because now I like using a non-100 (but high) value in FWWC. However the original behavior to always disrupt in assaults has remained. Now whether or not a successful assault should be treated as a normal night movement, with a normal Night Disruption check, well, that is another matter for discussion and difficult to say.

I would be perfectly fine if the behavior was changed that way, but as it is now, the rule is working as it was *originally* designed (back before there were probabilities and quality modifiers), but I can also see how it should behave the way that it does currently, because night assaults are very confusing and disruptive situations.

[Green]

Ah yes, units will automatically disrupt in night assaults, even successful ones (but they will take the hex though). I just verified it with A quality units and in several successful assaults they all disrupted.

Are you referring only to the situation that applies to FWWC? The original discussion was relating to PzC so I was confused by your post.

I cannot comment on FWWC but my understanding is that in PzC it is possible to assault without Disrupting at night when the Night Move Disruption parameter is non-zero. The chance of Disrupting when assaulting actually appears to be the same whether the percentage is zero or any other non-zero value.   

Sorry if I missed the point but I just thought it was worth making sure that I have not misunderstood something.

[Ricky B]

Ah yes, units will automatically disrupt in night assaults, even successful ones (but they will take the hex though). I just verified it with A quality units and in several successful assaults they all disrupted.

Are you referring only to the situation that applies to FWWC? The original discussion was relating to PzC so I was confused by your post.

I cannot comment on FWWC but my understanding is that in PzC it is possible to assault without Disrupting at night when the Night Move Disruption parameter is non-zero. The chance of Disrupting when assaulting actually appears to be the same whether the percentage is zero or any other non-zero value.   

Sorry if I missed the point but I just thought it was worth making sure that I have not misunderstood something.

Well, David says they are the same rule, he thought, but it appears if you are correct and units can assault and not disrupt when the night disruption is greater than 0, then VM's comments would seem to indicate they are different. I definitely don't recall ever seeing a non-disruption from assaulting in PzC, but it has been awhile. So will give it a try in some tests and report back  .

[Ricky B]

So I tried F'40, Prucha PDT with night disruption at 30%. Nobody seems to disrupt when assaulting, even though when moving the D units I tried disrupted every move. I will try further with a PDT set to 100% and a bit lower, and see what happens. But doesn't seem to be right to me, from what I know, but may be off base a bit too.

More to come.

[Ricky B]

So maybe night disruption never worked in the past the way I remembered, with automatic disruption in assaults. Definitely no disruptions even at 100% chance. So it appears that will change when the next updates come through, be aware!

[Volcano Man]

Well actually, it could be an intentional difference between the FWWC and PzC series.  

Night Disruption was first added in FWWC series (in France '14), then it was carried over by popular demand, I think, and improved there. I don't think it was carried over "just because".

Certainly in FWWC series the units always disrupt when assaulting at night if the Night Disruption is non-0.  

So, it might be that assaults don't disrupt in PzC due to Night Disruption, or it is treating them as a normal Night Disruption move when they advance, but either way, I think FWWC behavior is OK. Either way, care must be taken here because this is an example of one series creating/adding a rule (FWWC) and another series changing the rule (PzC), and some confusion as to how it works differently (at least for assault) between both series.

(Rick and David, please email me about any discussions on the issue so it can be coordinated).

Are you referring only to the situation that applies to FWWC? The original discussion was relating to PzC so I was confused by your post.

I cannot comment on FWWC but my understanding is that in PzC it is possible to assault without Disrupting at night when the Night Move Disruption parameter is non-zero. The chance of Disrupting when assaulting actually appears to be the same whether the percentage is zero or any other non-zero value.   

Sorry if I missed the point but I just thought it was worth making sure that I have not misunderstood something.

Yes, I was referring to PzC because a few comments later the discussion was based off of something I said, so I had to clarify from the FWWC perspective.