04-11-2020, 06:55 PM,
(This post was last modified: 04-11-2020, 06:55 PM by ComradeP.)
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ComradeP
Major General
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Posts: 1,467
Joined: Nov 2012
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RE: Night Distribution Percentage
From the Serbia '14 user manual, page 45:
Quote:All assaults at Night result in automatic Disruption of the attackers.
It depends on the series whether there's automatic disruption after a successful assault.
If an attacker assaults, moves into a hex after removing the defender, and is Disrupted, it's due to any night time Disruption penalties that come into play after the assault itself. Disruption when preparing the assault or resolving it comes from the normal assault or (in)direct fire mechanics.
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04-12-2020, 10:55 AM,
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Strela
Lieutenant General
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Posts: 1,820
Joined: Oct 2008
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RE: Night Distribution Percentage
I can’t confirm night assault disruption in PzC at this point, but everything Ed has asked for has ended up in the most recent PzC builds that I can see.
If that’s the case I would expect it to appear whenever we get to another patch cycle.
I’ll try and find out and report back..
David
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04-12-2020, 02:03 PM,
(This post was last modified: 04-12-2020, 02:24 PM by Volcano Man.)
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Volcano Man
Courage Conquers
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Posts: 1,748
Joined: Jan 2001
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RE: Night Distribution Percentage
Ah yes, units will automatically disrupt in night assaults, even successful ones (but they will take the hex though). I just verified it with A quality units and in several successful assaults they all disrupted.
My first thought here and now when I read the comments was that a successful night assault's advance would be treated like a normal move, but this is no the case.
IIRC, the behavior is that if the Night Disruption percentage is non-0 value (ie. a value between 1-100%), then assaults units will cause disruption when the units advance. I recall now that the rationale is that an assault would be much more disruptive than just simply moving, so the advancing units will become disrupted if Night Disruption is active (which it is active, if the value is non-0).
That said, keep in mind that when Night Disruption was introduced for the first time in F14 and the FWWC series, there was not a probability associated with it: it happened all the time as if the value was 100%. Later on, a probability was introduced, and quality modifiers as well, which makes sense to me - because now I like using a non-100 (but high) value in FWWC. However the original behavior to always disrupt in assaults has remained. Now whether or not a successful assault should be treated as a normal night movement, with a normal Night Disruption check, well, that is another matter for discussion and difficult to say.
I would be perfectly fine if the behavior was changed that way, but as it is now, the rule is working as it was *originally* designed (back before there were probabilities and quality modifiers), but I can also see how it should behave the way that it does currently, because night assaults are very confusing and disruptive situations.
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04-12-2020, 05:14 PM,
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Green
Captain
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Posts: 483
Joined: Dec 2002
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RE: Night Distribution Percentage
(04-12-2020, 02:03 PM)Volcano Man Wrote: Ah yes, units will automatically disrupt in night assaults, even successful ones (but they will take the hex though). I just verified it with A quality units and in several successful assaults they all disrupted.
Are you referring only to the situation that applies to FWWC? The original discussion was relating to PzC so I was confused by your post.
I cannot comment on FWWC but my understanding is that in PzC it is possible to assault without Disrupting at night when the Night Move Disruption parameter is non-zero. The chance of Disrupting when assaulting actually appears to be the same whether the percentage is zero or any other non-zero value.
Sorry if I missed the point but I just thought it was worth making sure that I have not misunderstood something.
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04-13-2020, 03:55 AM,
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Ricky B
Garde de la toilette
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Posts: 5,277
Joined: May 2002
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RE: Night Distribution Percentage
(04-12-2020, 05:14 PM)Green Wrote: (04-12-2020, 02:03 PM)Volcano Man Wrote: Ah yes, units will automatically disrupt in night assaults, even successful ones (but they will take the hex though). I just verified it with A quality units and in several successful assaults they all disrupted.
Are you referring only to the situation that applies to FWWC? The original discussion was relating to PzC so I was confused by your post.
I cannot comment on FWWC but my understanding is that in PzC it is possible to assault without Disrupting at night when the Night Move Disruption parameter is non-zero. The chance of Disrupting when assaulting actually appears to be the same whether the percentage is zero or any other non-zero value.
Sorry if I missed the point but I just thought it was worth making sure that I have not misunderstood something.
Well, David says they are the same rule, he thought, but it appears if you are correct and units can assault and not disrupt when the night disruption is greater than 0, then VM's comments would seem to indicate they are different. I definitely don't recall ever seeing a non-disruption from assaulting in PzC, but it has been awhile. So will give it a try in some tests and report back .
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04-13-2020, 10:12 AM,
(This post was last modified: 04-13-2020, 10:15 AM by Volcano Man.)
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Volcano Man
Courage Conquers
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Posts: 1,748
Joined: Jan 2001
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RE: Night Distribution Percentage
Well actually, it could be an intentional difference between the FWWC and PzC series.
Night Disruption was first added in FWWC series (in France '14), then it was carried over by popular demand, I think, and improved there. I don't think it was carried over "just because".
Certainly in FWWC series the units always disrupt when assaulting at night if the Night Disruption is non-0.
So, it might be that assaults don't disrupt in PzC due to Night Disruption, or it is treating them as a normal Night Disruption move when they advance, but either way, I think FWWC behavior is OK. Either way, care must be taken here because this is an example of one series creating/adding a rule (FWWC) and another series changing the rule (PzC), and some confusion as to how it works differently (at least for assault) between both series.
(Rick and David, please email me about any discussions on the issue so it can be coordinated).
(04-12-2020, 05:14 PM)Green Wrote: Are you referring only to the situation that applies to FWWC? The original discussion was relating to PzC so I was confused by your post.
I cannot comment on FWWC but my understanding is that in PzC it is possible to assault without Disrupting at night when the Night Move Disruption parameter is non-zero. The chance of Disrupting when assaulting actually appears to be the same whether the percentage is zero or any other non-zero value.
Sorry if I missed the point but I just thought it was worth making sure that I have not misunderstood something.
Yes, I was referring to PzC because a few comments later the discussion was based off of something I said, so I had to clarify from the FWWC perspective.
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