Damage from minefields.

[pax_xap]

I have looked around, but I am not able to find an answer to this simple question so I have to ask you guys for help. 

How much damage does an unit take when entering a level 1 minefield hex ? I know about the MP penalty, but can not find anything about casualties.

[ComradeP]

I don't know what the actual attack statistics are for minefield attacks, or if those can be found somewhere.

In PzC, damage is light most of the time. About as much as being fired at by a full strength battalion, but I don't know what HA/SA/assault(?) value the minefield uses.

[76mm]

Like ComradeP says, I don't know the values, but in Moscow 42, a German battalion entering a Level 1 minefield will usually take 1-3 casualties, so pretty light.

[Fhil]

Like ComradeP says, I don't know the values, but in Moscow 42, a German battalion entering a Level 1 minefield will usually take 1-3 casualties, so pretty light.

 Considering how light the casualties really are, I always wondered why the percentage for creating a minefield is mostly so small  You can always create just strenght 1 minefield so or so.

[ComradeP]

Players tend to want to clean them up, even though units take only light damage when moving into a minefield. You could argue that the "psychological" impact that makes players want to remove mines might cause more difficulties than the actual minefields.

Minefields are much more annoying in Panzer Battles, because they're not penetrated for supply purposes after a unit moves into them. Units in minefields become Isolated next turn.

In PzC, the only times when strength 1 minefields have much of an impact on operations that I can think of is when you're trying to assault a hex with a unit not adjacent to the target, and can't assault it because the minefield removes part of your movement points. Strength 2 and 3 minefields can cause serious delays for units in T-mode, but the slightly increased casualties don't have much of an effect on combat.

Though I can see why the minefield percentage is low, as a 1x1 kilometre hex is covered with mines, I don't know why you'd want to create minefields except in very rare cases such as on "your" side of a ford or bridge so anyone moving up in T-mode can't deploy after moving in due to losing MP's to mines.

[Ricky B]

Another impact of mines is blocking retreat in most situations - even for mine engineers, if they are disrupted and forced to retreat. But that isn't something a player can force to happen really.

[pax_xap]

I have looked around, but I am not able to find an answer to this simple question so I have to ask you guys for help. 

How much damage does an unit take when entering a level 1 minefield hex ? I know about the MP penalty, but can not find anything about casualties.

Ok, thanks for answers and reflections.

[Fhil]

Players tend to want to clean them up, even though units take only light damage when moving into a minefield. You could argue that the "psychological" impact that makes players want to remove mines might cause more difficulties than the actual minefields.

Minefields are much more annoying in Panzer Battles, because they're not penetrated for supply purposes after a unit moves into them. Units in minefields become Isolated next turn.

In PzC, the only times when strength 1 minefields have much of an impact on operations that I can think of is when you're trying to assault a hex with a unit not adjacent to the target, and can't assault it because the minefield removes part of your movement points. Strength 2 and 3 minefields can cause serious delays for units in T-mode, but the slightly increased casualties don't have much of an effect on combat.

Though I can see why the minefield percentage is low, as a 1x1 kilometre hex is covered with mines, I don't know why you'd want to create minefields except in very rare cases such as on "your" side of a ford or bridge so anyone moving up in T-mode can't deploy after moving in due to losing MP's to mines.

I agree with the above stated, mostly. Except for the last paragraph. I never saw a minefield hex as 1x1km of minefield. When you have a road hex mined for example, I though it represents basically a smaller area of the road with some mines within that 1x1 km hex where the road actually runs through. Many other aspects of warfare are treated as ´abstract´ in PzC system, so I also wouldn´t consider minefields being 1x1 kms of mines, there would have to be a few thousands of them in the ground. Also minefields without road hexes represent for me those 100m maybe of a real minefield?

 Also if this approach would be valid, than the scenario designs where there are 2 or 3x minefields would be strange, maybe except for Kursk where there actually were millions of mines. 

 There are sometimes smaller scenarios withing bigger battles where for example a given division is in retreat, it fortifies in some new area it has to defend and by the design there are already several new minefields around after a day in the new positions :/ Well, this is actually correct as this I believe was engineers´ job together with building up defenses, obstacles etc. But why not allowing the players to do so? One has to choose what to do with the engineers - bonus for building trenches? Laying minefields? Obstacles are not even a possibility. So I would be afraid that the players would be laying mines across the whole map.

 This discrepancy between design and player´s options always seemed strange to me, but it´s not really that much of an issue after all. In the end, one can alter this probability in the PDT file   It would just add to the game I think, there would be another ´engineers´ layer of the battle between players :) 

 Also agree with mines in PzB, they are more of a problem for the enemy there.

[Dog Soldier]

FWIW,
Minefields by themselves cause little casualties. Their main function is to channel an attacker to avoid them. They do cause significant movement delays.

Minefields have some indirect and more subtle advantages for the defender.

Because minefields are passive, defending players should cover minefields with adjacent units, preferably in covered hexes and at least in IP or TRENCHES if possible.
Have another unit or more close by if possible.

Units in minefield, IIRC defend against an assault at 1/2 strength. Disrupt an attacker in your minefield and they defend against an assault at 1/4 strength, like a broken unit. I know this is stated in the manual for engineers attempting to clear a minefield. It has been a while, but I think it any other units in minefields suffer a defensive penalty or a reduced assault value to hurt your units.

Now assault that unlucky enemy unit with whatever force you can. Be sure to move another friendly unit into the hex you assault from to maintain the fortification (IP, TRENCH etc) if one exists. Watch your stacking limit so your assaulting unit(s) can return to their original positions.
Units which start adjacent to the minefield can assault and return to their original positions after a successful assault. Calculate the movement costs of any units which have to move up to join the assault carefully.
The risk is that the assault will fail and leave your defenders disrupted in the enemy turn. Since there are no guarantees, weigh the costs versus the benefit of the assault in the current tactical and strategic terms.
There will be times when such attacks can pay off handsomely.

Such assaults can cause anywhere up to 40% of the unit in the minefield depending on its condition at the time of assault. Even a good order unit in a minefield can be damaged significantly. In many cases the unit in the minefield will be disrupted and forced to retreat. If it cannot due to stacks behind it, well.... it can really be punished. Such opportunities are to die for...I mean for your opponent to die for.

Now this technique will not always yield great results. It works best if the defender plans ahead for it. Artillery or an unlucky die roll for the unit entering the minefield causing disruption of the unit in the minefield sure make advance planning pay off for the defender. At the very least, the defender will upset the attacker's time table a bit. And every bit of time bought when defending helps. Another benefit is this counter attack on attacking units disrespecting your defending minefields may make the attacker more cautious and slow his advance.

Dog Soldier