New Panzer Campaign Graphics

[Xaver]

I like more the new defensive icons.

In the minefield and obstacle hexes... not bad

Maybe add in the middle of mine icon something in black, or white to made them more visible in all kind of terrains, with snow is easy see the mines but if you place them in forest or similar.

Obstacles problem i see is in the moment they have only 1 level of strenght (oposite to minefields) i think is better a single icon to represent them and dont use a number, something like the original obstacle icon but without the grey counter. Ummm the white and black bar we can see in some of the obstacles is a bug?

But something i have clear is better obstacles and minefields with no border in the hex, when you have a strong defensive line with mines, obstacles, trenches etc etc is hard diference defensive works types.

For IP and trenches maybe the letter needs be a little higher near the top corner of the counter to made it more visible and be a little bigger.

When you talk about lock down new art until next PzC title do you refer until Scheltd44 or the next East front title?

In general they look better now 

[BigDuke66]

Where does obstacle use a number? I just see O for obstacle.

Overall I like the 2nd versions where mines & obstacles use no border because that is a clear distinction from all the defensive positions. Also the map is less cluttered that way as often there are more mine & obstacles hexes then defensive positions.

[Fog of War]

To be very honest I don`t care for the new thin lines in the NATO icons at all, the old ones were fine.

I like the black/white dashed rail lines a lot.

The  dark brown/red roads are hard to see with these old eyes, why not black or a red or yellow even.
Does it have to be terrain related, it`s a map ya know.


Appreciate your Gold updates  very much , but this may be a Bridge Too Far.
Rich

[phoenix]

I hate to say this, but I like the version with the hex borders around the obstacles/mines. V clear. This is PC, right? Not PB?

I look forward to seeing the hard-hexless versions, with as little as possible of the light bulb. What's the light bulb for? i suppose so you can see the grid without switching the grid on?

[Simulacra53]

As we are free to shoot.

1. I think the terrain colors are now too dark again - from the Vienna bright map/atlas style back to a drab palette.

2. I like your high res counters, please do not thicken the symbol lines - or at least have both alternatives available.

3. Your previous objects experiment - mines, bunkers etc - was IMO refreshing, the latest is the same as already available in some form, but it is not my favorite - I rather have Jison style, or your experimental style instead

I am a fan of clear almost topographical kind of maps.

There is no pleasing everyone here.

Thanks for sharing.

[Strela]

Hi everyone,

Thanks for the comments to date.

In response to a few that I have seen, the Gold Graphics will be included with any new patches/released titles. You will be able to swap items like the the 'thicker' NATO symbols as these will be included with the Gold graphics updated for the hi-resolution graphics. So both the thin and 'legacy' thick NATO symbols will be there as required. Same for all the Gold graphics. You can just swap out all the new for the versions that will be included under a directory in Map.

As far as the 'duller' terrain. There are three reasons for this;

The first and probably the biggest is the reduction in flash bulb. This lightens about 30% of a hex and obviously has a bigger impact on a darker background. Reducing this effect makes the hexes more uniform but also duller. I can post some side to side images to better demonstrate this if required.

The second is that the Holland maps use the lowest two height levels of the fourteen available. These are by far the darkest in the palette. Usually you only see these levels in watercourses with most maps being in the 'mid' height levels - such as the Vienna shot shown previously. These dark colours are a big factor in the overall 'drabness'. What I may do is do a special palette for Scheldt '44 lightening the levels that are used to make the game clearer. I did something similar with the Middle East titles. More on this to follow.

The last is, as mentioned in my commentary is that these shots were in mud, which is an overlay and drab in itself. If I lighten up the underlying colour that will help here as well.

The aim is to be like Topographic maps. We use a common topographic map colour ramp for the hexes.

Here is the basic ramp;



And here it is in hexes with various effects applied;


Note how dark the first two rows are. This is what is being shown (with a mud overlay) in the images. I may experiment in moving down a few rows into the lighter greens for Holland.

Here is an example of what I mean by dark colours around watercourses and why I will adjust Holland. This screen shot is at the highest zoom-out level. You can see how dark the hexes are around the river and how it follows the streams. The yellow you are seeing is at height level 8 vs the river being at height level 1.



As far as mines/obstacles, I'm going to keep playing with these, but I expect they will be closer to what you're seeing now than what I showed originally. As far as fortifications, I believe we're done with this latest format.

One last thing with roads etc. I have attempted to emulate some of the better GMT maps that operate at a similar 'operational' scale. Below is an example. That said, I need to differentiate the primary/secondary better, because there is a similarity when the ground state is soft or mud. Still WIP but I may lighten the secondary roads further.





As you can also see this is a juggle to simplify information, make it legible, work under various ground states and altitudes as well as pleasing to the eye. Ultimately we won't please everyone, but with the Gold graphics included there should be some choice to swap out dislikes as required.

David

[Pinetree]

I really like this. Maybe give the road & rail a bit more curve to break up the 30 degree angle. Another thing that would be nice is a shore transition hexside to break up the hex shape of water hexes.  These are just nitpicks though.

I'm also not a fan of the lightbulbs so if you give us the option of either, that would be great

[Strela]

Hi,

The light bulb has essentially been toned down. it was only in the new zoom level and the existing '100' level. The zoomed out level shown above has no light bulb, hex outline or slope hexes included by default. It gives the best look overall. This also drives the jump map, so we're trying to keep it clean.

As far as roads/railways. this is a hard one. It's 'easy' to do curvy rivers and streams as it is essentially eight pieces of artwork. For roads, we're having to work with the following. There are 63 different configurations and if they don't align pixel to pixel it looks completely off. Add the cross hatching on railways and there is a massive exercise to get striping that is even and aligned. Transport network graphics are not for the faint hearted...





Sometimes the transport network looks fine if not laid out in dead straight lines. The following image is on the maximum zoom out from the same map above. You can see the railway twisting through the higher ground. When we lay out a map, we have an overlay of the source map and follow the actual road/railway. In many cases they are straight. These straight lines are less of an issue on the other two zoom levels as you're seeing less of the map.





The other little test that I have done is to see what adjusting the hex colours for the maps used in Scheldt. Here are some examples for comparison.

This first shot is the 'standard' hex colours as shown previously (all images can be right clicked for full size);






Here is exactly the same shot, but using the colour palette three colours 'up';




It is quite a marked difference, definitely brighter and completely changes the look of polder and marsh hexes and other features.

Here is another comparison using mud ground state. This first shot uses the current standard colours;




And here is the 'three' colours up look;




You will notice in both series of shots that the light bulb effect is much more evident in the darker terrain - much less so in the comparative shots.

I'm yet to decide which version is the better one for Scheldt '44, but with very few terrain altitude changes, we need the easiest on the eye as there are vast areas that are the same colour.

I hope this is starting to give you all some idea what we and the modders have to consider as we tweak, change and update graphics.

David

[phoenix]

I think the elevation differences are clearer in your original images, no, with the standard colouring of different contour levels? Even for the soft terrain I think it's clearer in the original. Also the soft terrain looks 'soft' in the original, not in the new version.

They're all nice graphics, and I feel safe and reassured anyway, since the Gold reversion will be an option. I'm really looking forward to Scheldt. When is it likely out, David?

[Strela]

I think the elevation differences are clearer in your original images, no, with the standard colouring of different contour levels? Even for the soft terrain I think it's clearer in the original. Also the soft terrain looks 'soft' in the original, not in the new version.

They're all nice graphics, and I feel safe and reassured anyway, since the Gold reversion will be an option. I'm really looking forward to Scheldt. When is it likely out, David?

The two sets of images I just posted were normal and mud. There was no soft included. As I said Scheldt is hard as it only uses two maybe three elevation changes so you will essentially get a map that is a single colour.

The biggest reason as mentioned that the hexes look 'dull' is the lessening of the light bulb effect. The full 'light bulb' was in all the original soft shots shown at the beginning of this thread. That is another reason these later shots look dull.

David