JTS Melee Calculations

[BigDuke66]

I suggest to wait for the new OR/Movement Threat Disorder), that was introduced with the last game, to be patch to the rest of the series.
That is something that could lessen incidents of huge melee stacks that can't be stopped by fire.

Besides that the combat mechanics might not really be the problem. The short turns with the fact of no real C&C makes it hard to achieve real advantageous situations that can be exploited.


PS: Okay while typing this we have a first new Napy patch, this one is for Waterloo.
What stands out are some benefits for the defender.
- Melee across a hexside or into a hex that would cause Disorder results in the same Melee penalty as if the unit was Disordered.
- Units defending in Melee fire at 100% fire.
- No Detached Melee optional rule introduced.
- Movement Threat Disorder optional rule introduced.

[phoenix]

Yes, it's perhaps getting better with the new rules. But I've played a couple of PBEM games with the new rules (in WPW) and the action was much the same. Mostly it was still a question of stack and melee. The new rules mean that every now and then if you do that one of your units in the stack might disorder. But, if the new rules are meant to encourage marching up, forming line and firing, then they fail, I think. Because in order to get within firing range you also have to close to within the auto-disorder range with the new rules, and hence you end up sometimes being randomly disordered even if what you're trying to do is form a line and fire. So it's hard to see how the rules achieve what is the stated aim in the notes for the WPW title - which is to encourage players to 'soften up' units by fire before they melee. If you try to do that then you're equally likely to fail the new disorder check...

It's not the combat mechanics to blame, of course, in the sense that players could choose to fight it as if they were fighting in Napoleonic era, and fire more, rather than melee more, even without any rule changes. But the game mechanics don't encourage that at present, I think.

Thanks for the info on 7 years war being different, TheGRayMouser. I have the title, haven't played it, and didn't realise that. Maybe I should try that.

[BigDuke66]

Your description reminds me more of the 7YW, were armies tried to fire the other side of the battlefield. Prussia was successful in that aspect, but where was that really the norm in the Nappy era?
Early(1805-1807) we see that units of quality fired and then meleed to maximize their impact on the enemy, but it's not like they engaged in an extensive fire fight.
In 1806 Prussia seemed to have tried this near Jena when they decided to go close to the French position later in the day without engaging them in close combat. We all know how that turned out.

[LarkinVB]

My main question still remains being unanswered.

Regarding melee in column versus firefight in line I have to agree that stacking columns is the way to go. This is a bit sad and will force even the brits to neglect line tactics.

[BigDuke66]

Then use the ORs to shift the balance towards line as far as possible.
An attacker can stack like mad but you can make him pay for it and may throw him in disarray so that he is prone to counter attacks..

[TheGrayMouser]

My main question still remains being unanswered.

Regarding melee in column versus firefight in line I have to agree that stacking columns is the way to go. This is a bit sad and will force even the brits to neglect line tactics.

Im not sure what happens in your MP games but Im just failing to see the gravity of this problem...

I just launched Leipzieg and played about a bit.   I sent a stacked column of 1700 Prussians in 3 units against a french line of perhaps  1300 men ( all in line, 1 unit per hex).  The opp fire was on the low end: only once on the  approach and once when I meleed, despite that all 3 French units could have fired, noone was disordered form the shooting.   Clearly in this small sample the defender would have shot better using the defensive fire mode...

Despite the wet musketry the results of the melee against the center French line unit consisting of 500 men.... 63 attackers to 43 defenders!!!  ... This is with over 3-1 attcker-defender odds in manpower and the desultory and to date unexplained 20/0 "modifier" which must for the attcker being in column....

As a result of this the Prussian column is ALL disordered and the French can now blast it with the three line units his turn.

I suppose if you think columns versus an equal # of men in line shouls fair worse, you could Modify the PDT to increase the fatigue rate for taking casuaulties when shot and when meeleing ( I m pretty sure these are in the PDT file...)

[BigDuke66]

... you could Modify the PDT to increase the fatigue rate for taking casuaulties when shot and when meeleing ( I m pretty sure these are in the PDT file...)

I'm afraid they are not in the PDT.

[TheGrayMouser]

... you could Modify the PDT to increase the fatigue rate for taking casuaulties when shot and when meeleing ( I m pretty sure these are in the PDT file...)

I'm afraid they are not in the PDT.

Ahh, that's too bad, I recall seeing some lines that effected fatigue but they likely are recovery rates etc.

Hmm, you can change the max amount of fatigue though, its currenltly set at 900... I wonder if you set it at say, 300 it would make a gradient out of the effects of low medium, high and Max. Of course the break points could be internally fixed in which case you go from low to Max after a single combat, not ideal nor usefull.