Normandy '44 any good?

[Liebchen]

Thanks jonnymacbrown, I'm still not sure whether to pull the trigger, as I'll most likely be playing against the AI in the large campaign game and I don't know if it is worth it. A PBEM of 750 turns seems a little implausible!

I'm curious why you will most likely be playing against the AI. Have you not played against people?

It's much more fun, imho, as people have better imaginations and more foresight than the AI. I never lose to the AI, but people beat me about 45% of the time.

Is in the turnaround that concerns you?

[CountryBoy]

I'm curious why you will most likely be playing against the AI. Have you not played against people?

It's much more fun, imho, as people have better imaginations and more foresight than the AI. I never lose to the AI, but people beat me about 45% of the time.

Is in the turnaround that concerns you?

I was only considering playing the AI due to the size of the scenario. I have played many large scenarios via PBEM - the largest in Budapest 45, Market Garden, Kharkov 42 and Tobruk, to mention just a few, but none were 750 turns.

That said, my opponent from Kharkov 42 was happy to play the 750 turn scenario from Normandy and we are about 15 turns in. I completely agree that PBEM is the best way to play.

[CheerfullyInsane]

The big issue is the dreadful quality of German troops, bar the panzer divisions. This past turn I had two infantry companies dug in a trench in bocage - a unit from 101st Airborne waltzed over and disrupted both with 2 attacks, losing only 1 man itself. Even when my units get to fire at a unit it T mode they do almost no damage.

Yeah, the Paras are a bitch to deal with. The only formations that can really stand up to them are your own Fallschirmjägers.
Good news is that they're leg-infantry, so they can't relocate very quickly, plus they get withdrawn at the end of June. After Cherbourg has fallen, they usually don't have much of an impact.

I hear what you are saying about the area from Caen to Carentan. At the moment I have the 21st Panzer and the 12th SS in that area, however they will get ground up by the Allies, so I will try and conduct an orderly withdrawal.

First 4-5 days are rough on the Germans. They're out of position, and have nowhere near enough troops to cover the front. Once Lehr gets in position, you'll have something that can charitably be called a front-line, but even then you'll still be hurting.
Don't forget that all those small-calibre AA units you have are capable of digging-in on their own.
They're pretty good at starting a second line of entrenchments once the primary line gets engaged.
Any fresh Inf divisions won't last more than a week (at most). Just enough time to give your Panzers a breather before they go back on the line.

All in all, the German player needs a somewhat fatalistic world-view.
You can't win, there are simply too many Allied troops around.
Nor will you be able to launch a daring Panzer-attack, driving deep into enemy territory.
So the focus-point becomes a matter of attrition, just settling for extracting as high a price for any gains the Allies do get as you can.

[Strela]

The big issue is the dreadful quality of German troops, bar the panzer divisions. This past turn I had two infantry companies dug in a trench in bocage - a unit from 101st Airborne waltzed over and disrupted both with 2 attacks, losing only 1 man itself. Even when my units get to fire at a unit it T mode they do almost no damage.

Yeah, the Paras are a bitch to deal with. The only formations that can really stand up to them are your own Fallschirmjägers.
Good news is that they're leg-infantry, so they can't relocate very quickly, plus they get withdrawn at the end of June. After Cherbourg has fallen, they usually don't have much of an impact.

I hear what you are saying about the area from Caen to Carentan. At the moment I have the 21st Panzer and the 12th SS in that area, however they will get ground up by the Allies, so I will try and conduct an orderly withdrawal.

First 4-5 days are rough on the Germans. They're out of position, and have nowhere near enough troops to cover the front. Once Lehr gets in position, you'll have something that can charitably be called a front-line, but even then you'll still be hurting.
Don't forget that all those small-calibre AA units you have are capable of digging-in on their own.
They're pretty good at starting a second line of entrenchments once the primary line gets engaged.
Any fresh Inf divisions won't last more than a week (at most). Just enough time to give your Panzers a breather before they go back on the line.

All in all, the German player needs a somewhat fatalistic world-view.
You can't win, there are simply too many Allied troops around.
Nor will you be able to launch a daring Panzer-attack, driving deep into enemy territory.
So the focus-point becomes a matter of attrition, just settling for extracting as high a price for any gains the Allies do get as you can.

That all sounds pretty damn historical to me...!

David

[CheerfullyInsane]

That all sounds pretty damn historical to me...!

David

It is. Also the reason why Normandy is one of my favourite PzC games.

It does have some niggles, like the initial invasion being a bit of a crap-shoot.
Mainly a case of the system not really being geared for something so specialized.
And the attritional nature of the campaign isn't for everybody.

But it does mirror the historic challenges beautifully.
Allies have an enormous amount of firepower available, but the terrain makes it very hard to achieve a breakthrough until they've slugged their way through the bocage.
The Germans on the other hand, while capable of temporarily stopping said breakthrough, have to watch their army being inexorably ground down.
At some point something will eventually snap, the only question is when and where.

[CountryBoy]

It's definitely a very accurate portrayal of the historical situation facing both sides in Normandy. I'm busying reading Beevor's D-Day at the same time as playing the game and what he describes in the book and what I encounter during the game are incredibly similar. Well done to JTS for being able to capture the battle so accurately.