Normandy 44

MichaelT · (This post was last modified: 06-10-2021, 08:01 AM by MichaelT.)

I think N44 might be broken. I last played N44 in 2009. My friend and I just started a new campaign. After a few turns I noticed he was infiltrating my lines with Comandos and Rangers. This was not possible in older versions. It makes it impossible for the Germans to hold a line anywhere. The allied player can infiltrate any gap with his special force units (there are many such units) and then move zoc to zoc with all his other Regular units once he has occupied the hex with the special forces.

I reiterate this was not possible in earlier versions. So I checked the change log/patch notes. Turns out it was a change (and I overlooked the ramifications of this change at the time for N44). Here is the change:

Changes for Normandy '44 1.12
- Change so that Partisans and Commandos can move from one enemy ZOC to another.

I am not sure when patch 1.12 was released for Normandy but is must have been after 2009 when I last played N44. So easy fix is a HR to ban such movements in N44.

But as it stands the campaign game for N44 is pretty much unplayable with rules as written. The German cannot create solid continuous lines in the early days so he has no chance to hold anywhere (not even at Omaha) and if he does try to stand his ground he will be quickly cut off and isolated by the infiltrating special forces.

Plain Ian · 06-10-2021, 06:25 AM,

(06-10-2021, 02:29 AM)MichaelT Wrote: I think N44 might be broken. I last played N44 in 2009. My friend and I just started a new campaign. After a few turns I noticed he was infiltrating my lines with Comandos and Rangers. This was not possible in older versions. It makes it impossible for the Germans to hold a line anywhere. The allied player can infiltrate any gap with his special force units (there are many such units) and then move zoc to zoc with all his other Regular units once he has occupied the hex with the special forces.

I reiterate this was not possible in earlier versions. So I checked the change log/patch notes. Turns out (and I overlooked the ramifications of this change at the time for N44). Here is the change:

Changes for Normandy '44 1.12
- Change so that Partisans and Commandos can move from one enemy ZOC to another.

I am not sure when patch 1.12 was released for Normandy but is must have been after 2009 when I last played N44. So easy fix is a HR to ban such movements in N44.

But as it stands the campaign game for N44 is pretty much unplayable with rules as written. The German cannot create solid continuous lines in the early days so he has no chance to hold anywhere (not even at Omaha) and if he does try to stand his ground he will be quickly cut off and isolated by the infiltrating special forces.

An alternative option might be to go into the OOB file and change the type flag from commando type to ordinary foot type. A bit tricky as you can't just do a Find and Replace All but will have to manually change each unit.
If you do this then the units won't be able to do other things that Commando's are allowed to do in the game such as -

[Image: 2021-06-09_21h12_48.png]

and

However the units will not move ZOC to non ZOC. Whistle

How you do this I'm not 100% sure. My guess is you change the parameters in yellow below......

[Image: 2021-06-09_21h00_18.png]

to this

I'm sure Green will be along shortly to correct things if I've got this all wrong.........

Green · 06-10-2021, 10:55 AM,

(06-10-2021, 06:25 AM)Plain Ian Wrote: I'm sure Green will be along shortly to correct things if I've got this all wrong.........

Hi Ian,

Actually, I would not have commented at all if you have not mentioned my name! This is not an area that I have experience in but I do not think what you are suggesting would work. I believe it is the Unit Type that the relevant rules are linked to rather than the unit attributes you would be changing in your example.

Regardless, I think MichaelT's suggestion of a House Rule would be a better approach for those that see this as an issue. Changing all commando units to normal infantry would cause other problems. Rangers scaling the cliffs at Pointe du Hoc, for example.

John

MichaelT · 06-10-2021, 11:56 AM,

I don't see how it could not be an issue. Prior to the patch in question the scenario's for N44 would have been balanced for play without such a rule. The rule is then introduced in to a title that has multitudes of such units with this new ability. Therefor having quite a significant effect. However the scenario's OOB's and conditions remain unchanged. Thus making most scenario's play quite differently.

I can't think of another title where this particular rule would have such a big effect on play. I would reckon this rule sneaked in to the system post Glenn Saunders era of influence. He had a lot to do with this title and I would think he would agree with me in that the rule would impact heavily on N44.

MichaelT · 06-10-2021, 12:34 PM,

I should add that even though a HR corrects the problem, I hope something official can be done to rectify it. One of the best things about this series is that HR's are not needed, unlike many other PC games I have played.

Green · 06-10-2021, 01:17 PM,

(06-10-2021, 11:56 AM)MichaelT Wrote: I don't see how it could not be an issue. Prior to the patch in question the scenario's for N44 would have been balanced for play without such a rule. The rule is then introduced in to a title that has multitudes of such units with this new ability. Therefor having quite a significant effect. However the scenario's OOB's and conditions remain unchanged. Thus making most scenario's play quite differently.

I can't think of another title where this particular rule would have such a big effect on play. I would reckon this rule sneaked in to the system post Glenn Saunders era of influence. He had a lot to do with this title and I would think he would agree with me in that the rule would impact heavily on N44.

Michael, I am not arguing with you but my suggestion that not everyone has an issue with this is simply based on the fact that this change was made some time ago ago and I do not recall anyone else saying that this game was now unplayable. It is popular game that is still played frequently. Perhaps it is a commonly held view that the commando rules are causing a major problem but I am unaware it. That is all I saying.

Whether the PzC rules for commandos should allow them to infiltrate is something than can be debated. I do not feel that I am in a position to have a strong view on this issue, so I will leave the discussion to others.

John

MichaelT · 06-10-2021, 01:52 PM,

NP. I can see how you may think that. I suspect many may not even know of the rule. It's kind of buried. It's not mentioned in the ZOC section of the rules. It's in the movement section. My opponent only stumbled on to it. As soon as I realized the the implications of it, it rang loud and clear in my mind all was not right. The landing beaches in N44 are a critical part of that battle/title. This rule is a huge change to that part of the game. The Germans cannot hope to hold at the beaches at all now. Prior to the rule change there was some value in fighting forward, especially at Omaha. It's even mentioned in the designers notes that the Allies may not get off the beach at Omaha. Not a possibility with this rule. And it makes defending the bocage with gaps in the line impossible. The Commandos and Rangers just sneak by followed up by all their regular friends.

CountryBoy · 06-10-2021, 03:26 PM,

I'm playing as Axis in a PBEM of the campaign scenario and we are on Turn 110, so I have seen what Michael has mentioned.

I wouldn't go so far as saying that it has 'broken' the game, however ability of rangers and commandos to ignore ZOC did make it very hard to mount an effective defence near the beaches. I had to pull the German units backwards very quickly to try and form a continous front line to negate the ability of those units to ignore ZOC. Mind you, I just adapted to it and got on with the game, it didn't occur to me that it was an issue.

MichaelT · 06-10-2021, 03:38 PM,

I have played all my N44 games prior to the change. So this is the first time I encountered N44 with the new rule. I don't like it one bit. Not in N44 anyhow. I can see how if you haven't played N44 prior to the change how you would not notice it.

IMO it unbalances the game. Gees it was already hard enough prior to the change. This just makes it all the more difficult for the Germans. Anyway I have made my point. We won't play N44 without a HR to negate this one aspect. I personally enjoy the fight for the beaches, so to take that option away diminishes the experience for me. Enough said. Good luck all.

Strela · 06-10-2021, 04:58 PM,

Hi there,

I just checked and the 1.12 patch was released in 2010. This is the first time, I have heard of an issue to be honest.

The challenge here with a 20+ year old series is that new rules may have unintended consequences on previously released titles as you have outlined. As designers/developer we are usually loath to go back and adjust prior title for new rules (if we are aware of the impacts).

Any correction (such as changing commandos etc to normal infantry) would impact nearly every scenario and would require a lot of work for an issue that had not been noted till now. I honestly think the best current solution is a house rule so that actions such as Pointe du Hoc are still possible.

David