Assault mod

[LostLT]

Fantastic work on this Charles, really good stuff.

So what I'm doing (I will then update and post v1.1 of the mods) - is utilizing the current formula for vehicle assaults:

(Armor - 4) * (Vehicle Infantry Value * Infantry Assault Value) / (Vehicle Hard Armor Value)

and then generating a modified vehicle assault value using the formula with the updated assault value.

(Armor - 4) * (Vehicle Infantry Value * Modified Infantry Assault Value) / (Vehicle Hard Armor Value)

Finally I am taking the difference of those two values to generate an Assault Value Increase Variable to the vehicles weapons.

Original Assault Value - Modified Assault Value = Assault Value Increase

I didn't realize we could create new weapon entries in the editor either. So for situations where multiple vehicles of differing armor values are utilizing the same weapons, I am creating a new weapon in the SQData.exe file with the weapon and vehicles name, then changing that specific vehicles weapons to match that up so they can get the correct increase.

All the above should be able to get the desired results (Vehicles maintain their current assault ratings per the original games intent) while letting us get the fixes for infantry! It should also let us maintain the original loss distribution for Vehicles, making them less of damage sponges in assaults, since we can then revert back to the original vehicle infantry value.

[Xerxes77]

Yes, that sounds just about right!

Amazing, thanks so much for putting these ideas into practice.

I only got Red Victory a few days ago during the sale, haven't touched it yet -- I was planning to hold off playing it until I'd ironed out the armor issue. Now with your help that might happen sooner than expected!

[LostLT]

You are very welcome Sir!

The AotR files for v1.1 are ready to download and contain the modifications made for vehicles. I also cleaned up infantry 'non-combat' items do not add to assault values. Feel free to check them out and let me know what you think.

I'm looking forward to playing a modified version of Red Victory as well - that has a much larger list, so it wont be ready for a little while. Hopefully soon though!

I picked up 3 titles in the sale (AotR, RV and PzB Normandy). I was on the edge of getting Eagles Strike, but figured I had enough ahead of me that it could wait for a bit :)

[LostLT]

Whoops, I probably should include the vehicles.dat file too since that makes use of the modified weapons!

v1.2 uploaded to dropbox

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/dh80ymm0up9yk...Cezta?dl=0

[Xerxes77]

Whoops, I probably should include the vehicles.dat file too since that makes use of the modified weapons!

v1.2 uploaded to dropbox

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/dh80ymm0up9yk...Cezta?dl=0

Hi LostLt, thanks again for this, it's been a busy week. I don't have AotR but will try RV when ready!

[LostLT]

Sounds good. I'm about a third of the way through updating the vehicles on Red Victory, will let you know when I finish it.

Another question / food for thought type of thing - I've noticed that crewed weapons such as guns (pak40, 57mm AT) have a crew value in the editor. I'm wondering about how assault values are calculated with crewed weapons when assaulted - afaik the manual doesn't cover this use case. Its possible the crew rating is just to determine the ability to move the weapon and/or retreat with it when a crew loses an assault - but if IAV is utilized for the crew, it may be more appropriate to multiply the assault modifier 19 by the number of crew.

So for an example, a 57mm AT Gun M41 with an crew of 4 would now have an AV of 76.

Let me know your thoughts on this. Not sure if its worth testing. Again, I probably should try to test this more myself. I played a scenario with guns and it felt relatively easy to assault them with infantry using the mod.

[Xerxes77]

Sounds good. I'm about a third of the way through updating the vehicles on Red Victory, will let you know when I finish it. 

Another question / food for thought type of thing - I've noticed that crewed weapons such as guns (pak40, 57mm AT) have a crew value in the editor. I'm wondering about how assault values are calculated with crewed weapons when assaulted - afaik the manual doesn't cover this use case. Its possible the crew rating is just to determine the ability to move the weapon and/or retreat with it when a crew loses an assault - but if IAV is utilized for the crew, it may be more appropriate to multiply the assault modifier 19 by the number of crew.

So for an example, a 57mm AT Gun M41 with an crew of 4 would now have an AV of 76.

Let me know your thoughts on this. Not sure if its worth testing.  Again, I probably should try to test this more myself. I played a scenario with guns and it felt relatively easy to assault them with infantry using the mod.

Awesome!

That's a great observation about crewed weapons. I think I have basically neglected them. They should definitely be handled differently. Indeed the Crew parameter doesn't really factor into assaults, it just affects movement and firing (apart from scoring), but the unit carrying the weapon does.

I believe the general equation should be AV = Crew*19 + Previous_AV, which fits your example as the 57mm AT Gun has a previous AV of 0.

Of course, if the carrying unit exceeds the weapon's crew requirement, those extra guys should have some kind of weapon equipped to be able to contribute to the assault. That's for the scenario designer to take care of; however I believe in most cases that's already considered.

Again, nice job! May be worth testing, but I think it should work.

[Xerxes77]

Sounds good. I'm about a third of the way through updating the vehicles on Red Victory, will let you know when I finish it. 

I have an important update. Just discovered that the engine doubles the assault value of all *vehicle weapons*. That means that a tank with two weapons, e.g. one with AV 18 and the other with AV 6, will add (18+6)*2= 48 instead of 24 to its base assault value.

Can't say at the moment if this is a deliberate adjustment or just another bug. The doubling is not mentioned in the manual, that's for sure. Since most vehicle weapons have a negligible assault value, the effect of this is barely noticeable in-game. However, the impact becomes evident as the weapon AVs grow higher, which for the purposes of this mod means that the adjusted AV of all vehicle weapons should be *halved* to keep overall assault values consistent with the stock game.

This can be tested with low-armor vehicles armed with high value weapons-- the difference in casualties of stock game vs. modded is clear.

[LostLT]

I have an important update. Just discovered that the engine doubles the assault value of all *vehicle weapons*. That means that a tank with two weapons, e.g. one with AV 18 and the other with AV 6, will add (18+6)*2= 48 instead of 24 to its base assault value.

Can't say at the moment if this is a deliberate adjustment or just another bug. The doubling is not mentioned in the manual, that's for sure. Since most vehicle weapons have a negligible assault value, the effect of this is barely noticeable in-game. However, the impact becomes evident as the weapon AVs grow higher, which for the purposes of this mod means that the adjusted AV of all vehicle weapons should be *halved* to keep overall assault values consistent with the stock game.

This can be tested with low-armor vehicles armed with high value weapons-- the difference in casualties of stock game vs. modded is clear.

Ahh, thanks for letting me know.  It looks like, another update is in order to AVs for AoTR to halve the modified AVs of Vehicle weapons. We can factor that in as well to RV 1.1.

[Xerxes77]

Ahh, thanks for letting me know.  It looks like, another update is in order to AVs for AoTR to halve the modified AVs of Vehicle weapons. We can factor that in as well to RV 1.1.

No problem. Just sent you a PM with a bit of interesting news on the subject.