The Bolt out of the Blue 10.0 Beta

[Green]

You may want to add to the Bolt 10.0 Changelog what the recommended Optional Rules are for Bolt 10.0.  It can be confusing knowing whether the recommended optional rules are still Bolt 5.3, vanilla HPS D85, vanilla WDS D85 or what is in the scenario description for Bolt 10.0.  For example, helicopter blocking is still checked for 10.0, even though helicopters are now abstracted.  And it is not that clear - at least to me - whether one should use alt assault, artillery set-up and artillery/airstrikes by map in Bolt 10.0.

Yes, I can see why it is confusing. The changes to the recommended optional rules should be added to the change log. But those given in the scenario description for Bolt 10.0 are the rules that are now recommended for this scenario.

[Elxaime]

You may want to add to the Bolt 10.0 Changelog what the recommended Optional Rules are for Bolt 10.0.  It can be confusing knowing whether the recommended optional rules are still Bolt 5.3, vanilla HPS D85, vanilla WDS D85 or what is in the scenario description for Bolt 10.0.  For example, helicopter blocking is still checked for 10.0, even though helicopters are now abstracted.  And it is not that clear - at least to me - whether one should use alt assault, artillery set-up and artillery/airstrikes by map in Bolt 10.0.

Yes, I can see why it is confusing. The changes to the recommended optional rules should be added to the change log. But those given in the scenario description for Bolt 10.0 are the rules that are now recommended for this scenario.

Here are the issues, I think:

- Neither version of D85 (HPS or WDS) got the "Gold" treatment as yet, so while Bolt 10.0 beta scenario calls to use alt assault, the alt rules are not available (optional fire and assault are).  I am not sure if/when D85 (I assume this being D85 4.0, the WDS version) will get the "Gold" treatment and add the four alt rules but would be great if development of Bolt 10.0 took that into account.
- the Bolt 5.3 handbook calls for enabling indirect fire by map, artillery set-up and higher fatigue recovery, while Bolt 10.0 beta scenario does not.  These are fairly impactful rules, so would be great to check this wasn't an oversight and, if not, what was the design rationale for not recommending them.
- the WDS version D85 4.0 has some new features like decimal use in replacement/digging-in rates, new amphibious assault rules, flagging units as Mountain, irregular unit flagging, etc.  As Bolt 10.0 beta is finalized, would be great if it incorporated the capabilities of D85 4.0 (and Gold, as noted above).

Hope this helps.

James

[Green]

You may want to add to the Bolt 10.0 Changelog what the recommended Optional Rules are for Bolt 10.0.  It can be confusing knowing whether the recommended optional rules are still Bolt 5.3, vanilla HPS D85, vanilla WDS D85 or what is in the scenario description for Bolt 10.0.  For example, helicopter blocking is still checked for 10.0, even though helicopters are now abstracted.  And it is not that clear - at least to me - whether one should use alt assault, artillery set-up and artillery/airstrikes by map in Bolt 10.0.

Yes, I can see why it is confusing. The changes to the recommended optional rules should be added to the change log. But those given in the scenario description for Bolt 10.0 are the rules that are now recommended for this scenario.

Here are the issues, I think:

- Neither version of D85 (HPS or WDS) got the "Gold" treatment as yet, so while Bolt 10.0 beta scenario calls to use alt assault, the alt rules are not available (optional fire and assault are).  I am not sure if/when D85 (I assume this being D85 4.0, the WDS version) will get the "Gold" treatment and add the four alt rules but would be great if development of Bolt 10.0 took that into account.
- the Bolt 5.3 handbook calls for enabling indirect fire by map, artillery set-up and higher fatigue recovery, while Bolt 10.0 beta scenario does not.  These are fairly impactful rules, so would be great to check this wasn't an oversight and, if not, what was the design rationale for not recommending them.
- the WDS version D85 4.0 has some new features like decimal use in replacement/digging-in rates, new amphibious assault rules, flagging units as Mountain, irregular unit flagging, etc.  As Bolt 10.0 beta is finalized, would be great if it incorporated the capabilities of D85 4.0 (and Gold, as noted above).

Hope this helps.

James

James,

Yes, that does help! Alternative Assault Resolution was clearly an error. Just ignore that. But the removal of Indirect Fire and Air Strikes By The Map and the addition of Artillery Set Up was deliberate. Higher Fatigue Recovery is a recommended rule for this scenario so that has not changed.

I have had no involvement with this so I cannot provide the rationale. David is not currently available but he did explain to me that the recommended rules for this scenario had changed from the previous Bolt version.

I would imagine your comments will be taken on board in terms of changes to take into account Version 4.0 features. This is an issue for the designer to consider as this is a mod rather than an official WDS scenario. But the reason this is classified as Beta is to get player feedback prior to a final version.

John

[Elxaime]

Thanks for the informative replies! With that in mind, I am open to playtesting this with a willing NATO opponent. PM me if interested.

[Spooky391]

Thanks for the informative replies!  With that in mind, I am open to playtesting this with a willing NATO opponent.  PM me if interested.

PM Sent

[VampirNG]

First of all, thank you for creating a great mod for DB85. I have a few minor comments to possibly improve the mod's graphics. The Soviet 152 mm D-20 howitzer is presented in the game as a unit equipped with ML-20 howitzers (wz. 1937). If proofreading could be asked, that would be great. In the basic version of the game, as well as in Bolt out of the ..., the HQ unit of Polish divisions is presented with the picture of the Czechoslovak HQ unit (the officer in the image of the Polish division headquarters unit is a Czechoslovak senior officer in uniform). Please correct this little mistake. The last element to be corrected for today is the background of the cards of Polish and Czechoslovak units. In the game, it is the same for both armies. Unfortunately, this is a mistake, as the LWP and CSLA troops used completely different camouflage patterns. For the Polish army, the background can be considered correct, in the case of the Czechoslovak army, it needs to be corrected.
https://weaponsystems.net/system/543-152mm%20D-20
https://weaponsystems.net/system/1241-152mm%20ML-20
https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/.../ml-20.htm
https://www.camopedia.org/index.php?titl...44-1989.29
https://www.camopedia.org/index.php?titl...hoslovakia
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Categ...uselang=pl
https://pl.pinterest.com/pin/774196992187136129/

Regards Norbert

[Strela]

First of all, thank you for creating a great mod for DB85. I have a few minor comments to possibly improve the mod's graphics. The Soviet 152 mm D-20 howitzer is presented in the game as a unit equipped with ML-20 howitzers (wz. 1937). If proofreading could be asked, that would be great. In the basic version of the game, as well as in Bolt out of the ..., the HQ unit of Polish divisions is presented with the picture of the Czechoslovak HQ unit (the officer in the image of the Polish division headquarters unit is a Czechoslovak senior officer in uniform). Please correct this little mistake. The last element to be corrected for today is the background of the cards of Polish and Czechoslovak units. In the game, it is the same for both armies. Unfortunately, this is a mistake, as the LWP and CSLA troops used completely different camouflage patterns. For the Polish army, the background can be considered correct, in the case of the Czechoslovak army, it needs to be corrected.
https://weaponsystems.net/system/543-152mm%20D-20
https://weaponsystems.net/system/1241-152mm%20ML-20
https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/.../ml-20.htm
https://www.camopedia.org/index.php?titl...44-1989.29
https://www.camopedia.org/index.php?titl...hoslovakia
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Categ...uselang=pl
https://pl.pinterest.com/pin/774196992187136129/

Regards Norbert

Hi Norbert,

Thanks for this. I just approved your comments on the WDS site (I had been away), I will see what if anything we can do to fix the issues you raise - no promises etc.

Cheers,

David

[Elxaime]

A few quick comments (just one turn in):

- Once dawn arrives, it looks like air interdiction effects kick in immediately. I had the impression in the old Bolt that interdiction didn't start right away, in order to represent the two sides being mainly engaged in air supremacy early on. I do notice the helo airstrikes are available at first light, but not fixed wing. But these two mechanisms seem at odds. If the opening turns are an air supremacy battle, wouldn't that affect not just availability of fixed wing airstrikes, but also availability of attack helo strikes and enabling of air interdiction effects?

- Should the border companies each side has, particularly in the Berlin area, start the game entrenched (or at least in improved positions)? I would assume the decades of Cold War had hardened the frontier line of contact

- some bridges in the Berlin area (e.g., 353,234) have been marked as Wired, but I don't believe the scenario uses the Wired bridge rule. At least I assume so - I have a Pact border unit next to that wired hex and it hasn't triggered. I know this is an issue in some of the Prucha France 1940 campaign scenarios, where the designer needs to represent that some bridges will be dropped but doesn't want to wire everything - in which case the intermediate solution is to require manual bridge destruction while having certain bridges start already blown. But since I don't see any already blown bridges at the start of Bolt 10.0 beta, I assume the wired status is a mistake/oversight?

- also, there is an unbridged stream across a primary road at 365,387; secondary road at 172,263; secondary road at 284,456 and 372, 328

(more comments six turns in)

- air interdiction, when it hits, is very fierce. I assume this is the designer's intent to compensate for removing airstrikes/artillery by map, to compensate?

- I have noticed that when an enemy HQ is spotted by EW, or any unit by your special forces, you can target the (otherwise unspotted) enemy HQ or unit with ANY of your air assets, including attack helos. If the issue can't be resolved within game mechanics, probably need a recommended House Rule that attack helicopters cannot hit hexes not spotted by units of their own organization (e.g. not by just spetznaz).

- I think a fuller explanation in the (updated) Bolt design notes to explain the philosophy behind the interplay between the a) interdiction damage, b) removal of air/arty strikes by map as a default optional rule, c) the special forces/deception units; and d) EW spotting of HQs would be very helpful to guide new players in what to expect

- Some of the Soviet Spetznaz (e.g. the unit that lands at 41,335) appear to be flagged as demolition units. This means they can't dig in. Why have some flagged as demolition? I don't believe they have a bridge destruction capability. This may be a left over from old Bolt, with its various special forces strategies.

- Speaking of which, why get rid of the special operations strategies? It would be nice to be able to select some to augment the air drop choices. It is rough on airborne as it is, so having some deception units to slow enemy reaction would be nice (and would seem appropriate).

- the 1/71 Czech Special Forces unit has the counter appearance of special forces but appears to have the stats/flagging of a regular infantry unit, it also deploys in the rear with 4th Czech army HQ, instead of behind enemy lines like other special units

- In the rear areas, there really aren't any troops guarding the main cities and VP spots, meaning that once the regular forces have rolled through, the rear is basically empty. Border companies mark the border, but that's it. I recall from a past design discussion that it was a matter of not wanting to overload players with too many units. But it seems to me that isn't as big a problem with the new design, since helos are now abstracted and releases are timed. So I suggest revising adding at least a company on each VP hex in the home countries, fixed, to represent Interior Ministry, gendarmerie, militarized police, etc.

[Aolain]

Some location changes for what is called in the game 3 Brigade 1st Infantry Division. In reality this brigade, with whom I served during the period covered in the game, was known as the 1st Infantry Division (Forward)--or 1st ID (F). We were an independent brigade under corps control during peace time, and in time of war our GDP plan (I am guessing this is no secret any more!) was to be under the operational control of the German 12th Panzer Division. In the game, the brigade HQ and 4/16 Infantry start in Boblingen. In reality both were at Goeppingen. Also, 2-5 Arty is shown as starting in Boblingen, when in actuality it was based at Schwabisch Gumund. Minor stuff, I know, but hey, when I play Bolt and 4/16 Infantry gets shot up, I take it personal!!

[Strela]

Thank you all, I am going to ask Aaron the designer to come and have a look at the commentary to date

Happy New Year!

David