Minsk 44 Gold question

[jonnymacbrown]

Has the gold edition fixed the situation where Partizan units are also given Deception unit capabilities?
The problem is Deception units are not affected by Patrolling. The deception units can't be spotted nor are their effects negated by patrolling. There are scores of them and it becomes almost impossible to move German units by RR.
jonny

[Dreamslayer_spb]

Why do you think that it's something like a bug? Maybe this way was simulated coordinated mass partisan actions include actions against RR-net on the eve of Bagration operation.

(translated by Google, sorry)

"It was decided to carry out a massive rail strike on enemy communications on the night of June 19-20, 1944. This was indicated on June 8, 1944. “The last uncertainty about the timing of the start of the offensive,” testifies the former Hitlerite general K. Tipelskirch, “dispersed on June 20 , when partisans undertook major sabotage on the railways Pinsk - Luninets, Borisov - Orsha and Molodechno - Polotsk, that is, just on the communications of the Army Group Center [13, p. 442].

However, the enemy was unable to do anything preemptive.

“As a result of the simultaneous strike of partisans on the railway lines on the night of June 20, 1944, which should be regarded as preparation for the Russian offensive,” stated in the report of the economic leader under the main command of Army Group Center Niederfuer, “serious obstacles arose in railway traffic ... The consequences of a large partisan action on June 20 are enormous: the main railway communications, despite the immediate measures taken and restoration work, were paralyzed ”[14, p. 250-251].

On that night, partisans blew up over 40,000 rails in total. This operation marked the beginning of the third, final stage of the "rail war" in Belarus. The blow was so powerful and coordinated that as a result, many railways were paralyzed until the end of Operation Bagration. Traffic on the lines Orsha-Borisov, Orsha-Mogilev, Molodechno-Polotsk, Lida-Molodechno, Brest-Baranovichi-Minsk, Baranovichi-Luninets, Starushki-Urechye, etc. has completely stopped."

[jonnymacbrown]

Why do you think that it's something like a bug? Maybe this way was simulated coordinated mass partisan actions include actions against RR-net on the eve of Bagration operation.

I didn't say it was a bug. It's a design feature that completely negates patrolling. Normal partizans can cause all the mayhem you describe. There is no need for deception units which the Russians didn't have. The designer went overboard and made ALL partizan units deception units. There was a thread a few months ago on the topic:

RE: Patrolling
In Minsk '44, the partisans have been given the Deception unit attribute. These means that in addition to the inherent deception abilities that partisans possess, it can also deploy as a Deception unit. Deployed deception units are not affected by Patrolling unless the Extended Patrolling optional rule is used. I suspect this is what is causing the problem.

Since Minsk pre-dates the Extended Patrolling rule, it is not clear to me what the intention of the designer was. I  have mentioned this to David, and unless he can discover the rationale, he will fix this as part of the update process.

In the meantime, players starting a new game should consider using the Extended Patrolling optional rule. For games in progress the Russian player could refrain from deploying partisans.

[Strela]

Exactly which scenario are you looking at so I can check the appropriate OOB?

thanks,

David

[jonnymacbrown]

Exactly which scenario are you looking at so I can check the appropriate OOB?

thanks,

David

Hi. 0623_01a: The Destruction of Army Group Center - [HTH]   This is the one with fixed German units.
I gave up patrolling deep into the game (turn 60 or so) when I saw my units disordered when in the same hex as a patrolling unit. Also the program would state "Unit disordered by deception unit."  jonny

[KAreil]

Hi. 0623_01a: The Destruction of Army Group Center - [HTH]   ...when I saw my units disordered when in the same hex as a patrolling unit. Also the program would state "Unit disordered by deception unit."  jonny

I only know partisan units from Serbia'14 but there this could easily happen - completely on purpose. If the partisan unit has a higher "range" (e.g. 3 in Serbia'14) than the patrolling unit (e.g. 2 in Serbia'14) then the partisan can disrupt a unit even in the same hex as the patrolling unit.

At first I got this wrong but "Patrolling" does not create a "safe bubble".
The partisan unit must be within patrolling range to negate it's effect.

[jonnymacbrown]

Hi. 0623_01a: The Destruction of Army Group Center - [HTH]   ...when I saw my units disordered when in the same hex as a patrolling unit. Also the program would state "Unit disordered by deception unit."  jonny

I only know partisan units from Serbia'14 but there this could easily happen - completely on purpose. If the partisan unit has a higher "range" (e.g. 3 in Serbia'14) than the patrolling unit (e.g. 2 in Serbia'14) then the partisan can disrupt a unit even in the same hex as the patrolling unit.

At first I got this wrong but "Patrolling" does not create a "safe bubble".
The partisan unit must be within patrolling range to negate it's effect.

I understand. The problem is in M 44 there are no Partizan units; only Deception units and the Russians didn't have those. Deception units are impervious to the effects of Patrolling so this negates a whole aspect of the game.   jonny

[Strela]

The corrected standard and Alt OOB's are here: Revised Minsk '44 OOB's

[Ruskolnikov]

Hi Strela...I bought Minsk 44 around a month ago. Have the revised Minsk 44 OOB's listed above been added to the latest version of Minsk 44 or do I need to add them? Thanks Mark

[Ruskolnikov]

Looking at the date modified of the original files, I expect the answers to my question above is I need to add them ?