Cant Decide: Normandy 44 or Scheldt

[JAJ28]

I do not own a PzC or Battles game yet and want to give one a go.

Im thinking Normandy 44 Gold (PzC) or Scheldt? Clearly Normandy must be one of the more popular games but to me it might be a bit of a slog (which isnt always bad). Do the Germans have a chance in PBEM?

I like the idea of Scheldt because it incorporates some of the Market Garden campaign along with many more obscure battles in Belgium, which is neat to me.

Then of course there are PzBattle games, which Im not sure I want to dive into yet. If an opinion is aired though Im open to hearing it!

Is there a better first PzC game between the two or should I consider a different title altogether?

Thanks for any feedback!

[Ricky B]

For me, PzC Scheldt and Normandy are both fairly slow moving, although Normandy has plenty of smaller ones with a lot of movement. Scheldt a bit less so, in large part due to the terrain. But they are both enjoyable.

I would say get what appeals to you the most. You will find a mix of size and battle types in all of the games. PzB is definitely different with ranged fired, unlimited defensive fire and other things. Again, you will find.mix of scenarios in those games, more fluid overall than PzC in many cases.

[Liebchen]

... but to me it might be a bit of a slog (which isnt always bad).

Scheldt is definitely a slog, if this is a concern. All troops involved were either exhausted, fairly inexperienced, or at the end of their attenuated supply lines. Not to mention that it is constantly raining and the ground is wet.

Did I mention how fortified the German positions are, on the coast and along the Rhine?  

This is not to say that it is not a fun title, it is, but it is also a slog.

If you want a non-slog, you'll likely have to look to the Ostfront, something like Smolensk or Kiev.

If you're set on a western front title and don't want a slog, try France '40.

[JAJ28]

I guess I dont know what Id like. I play the Black powder games now. Linear combat. Really enjoy the Civil War and EAW Tiller Games (WDS). Suppose its really a crap shoot. Going to buy a WW1 title (France). Just thought Id ask opinions on a WW2 game. I appreciate the feedback, its my ignorance and indecisiveness thats the main issue here!

[Compass Rose]

Make sure you grab the Demos for PzC and especially PzB to test things out.

The PzC Demo covers the Eastern Front.

The PzB Demo is like a mini game in itself and offers scenarios in North Africa, France, Pacific Theater, and Eastern Front.

The NAP Demo is alot of fun, too!


https://wargameds.com/collections/game-demos-wds

Good Luck!

[Fhil]

Jus my 2 cents regarding the demos of PzC and PzB, as I think the "real" titles are much better than the demos in both cases  

PzC Demo Mius - this is a kind of a slog as well, as you are assaulting a fortified German positions along the Mius river. While there are such scenarios in the eastern front titles of course, there are many more that are not such a slog - fluid situation like the mentioned Smolensk or Kiev etc., the same on the western front titles. So don´t be drawn-off if you find the demo too slogish, most scenarios and campaigns in these series are not like that.

PzB Demo - while there are a lot of scenarios to choose from, unfortunately not all are well representative either. Some of them seem without proper play-test. For example the eastern front Tartar ditch scenarios, I think there are 3 of them around that bettle there. Germans are like super human machines in there, all in great quality without losses, without fatigue, they will just steamroll through the poor soviet forces, these are simply unplayable outside of maybe some introduction to the game system..The two scenarios around Kharkov battles in 1943 are much, much better. 
The point is -  as I own only the North Africa ´41 title yet, I must say that the scenarios there are much better "balanced" in general in that title than in the demo.

And the whole point is - both demos are not that good at representing either of the series, they are really much better than the demos :)

[JAJ28]

Jus my 2 cents regarding the demos of PzC and PzB, as I think the "real" titles are much better than the demos in both cases  

PzC Demo Mius - this is a kind of a slog as well, as you are assaulting a fortified German positions along the Mius river. While there are such scenarios in the eastern front titles of course, there are many more that are not such a slog - fluid situation like the mentioned Smolensk or Kiev etc., the same on the western front titles. So don´t be drawn-off if you find the demo too slogish, most scenarios and campaigns in these series are not like that.

PzB Demo - while there are a lot of scenarios to choose from, unfortunately not all are well representative either. Some of them seem without proper play-test. For example the eastern front Tartar ditch scenarios, I think there are 3 of them around that bettle there. Germans are like super human machines in there, all in great quality without losses, without fatigue, they will just steamroll through the poor soviet forces, these are simply unplayable outside of maybe some introduction to the game system..The two scenarios around Kharkov battles in 1943 are much, much better. 
The point is -  as I own only the North Africa ´41 title yet, I must say that the scenarios there are much better "balanced" in general in that title than in the demo.

And the whole point is - both demos are not that good at representing either of the series, they are really much better than the demos :)

Good to know, thank you for your observation. Good to hear.

I appreciate all the feedback Ive gotten. I continue to be astonished by the helpful nature of this community here.

Does anyone have any knowledge of Sicily 43 or Salerno?

[LordDeadwood]

Jus my 2 cents regarding the demos of PzC and PzB, as I think the "real" titles are much better than the demos in both cases  

PzC Demo Mius - this is a kind of a slog as well, as you are assaulting a fortified German positions along the Mius river. While there are such scenarios in the eastern front titles of course, there are many more that are not such a slog - fluid situation like the mentioned Smolensk or Kiev etc., the same on the western front titles. So don´t be drawn-off if you find the demo too slogish, most scenarios and campaigns in these series are not like that.

PzB Demo - while there are a lot of scenarios to choose from, unfortunately not all are well representative either. Some of them seem without proper play-test. For example the eastern front Tartar ditch scenarios, I think there are 3 of them around that bettle there. Germans are like super human machines in there, all in great quality without losses, without fatigue, they will just steamroll through the poor soviet forces, these are simply unplayable outside of maybe some introduction to the game system..The two scenarios around Kharkov battles in 1943 are much, much better. 
The point is -  as I own only the North Africa ´41 title yet, I must say that the scenarios there are much better "balanced" in general in that title than in the demo.

And the whole point is - both demos are not that good at representing either of the series, they are really much better than the demos :)

Good to know, thank you for your observation. Good to hear.

I appreciate all the feedback Ive gotten. I continue to be astonished by the helpful nature of this community here.

Does anyone have any knowledge of Sicily 43 or Salerno?

I like the Salerno title, although I have played enough of it lately to be a little tired of it. Some of the smaller scenarios seem unbalanced, but the Salerno campaign is a good intro to playing the larger scenarios - 80 turns, with a manageable number of units. Both sides have opportunities for attack and defense. The Crete campaign looks interesting as well.

[Outlaw Josey Wales]

There is the Modern Campaigns as well.

[JAJ28]

There is the Modern Campaigns as well.

Then you go and throw that wrinkle in there as if my decision making needed more options!  :)

Thank you. Im sure I will collect them all eventually.