Air Interdiction question

[jonnymacbrown]

Does the number of air units available have anything to do with interdiction? Lets say I use all my available air resources does that reduce the effectiveness of my interdiction?  Thanks, jonny

[ComradeP]

The wording in the manual is a bit vague, but the game randomly picks an air unit from any of the air units at the disposal of the enemy side in the current scenario. There's no relation between whether or not the air unit was used during the previous enemy turn and its ability to interdict. This can make the interdiction results quite random as well in situations where the enemy side has a mixture of low SA value fighter bombers and tactical/medium bombers.

To complicate things, air availability refers to two separate things in the game:

-A percentage chance to determine when an air unit will be available again after using it for an air mission. This percentage can be found in the "Miscellaneous" section of the parameter data dialogue.

-Air availability in the Units menu that shows any changes in the units that are available for air missions during the scenario. I'm not sure if units that are not available for missions according to the air availability dialogue in the Units menu can fly interdiction missions. They are not withdrawn, they're just not available, and they recover fatigue/replacements normally.

[Liebchen]

The wording in the manual is a bit vague, but the game randomly picks an air unit from any of the air units at the disposal of the enemy side in the current scenario. There's no relation between whether or not the air unit was used during the previous enemy turn and its ability to interdict. This can make the interdiction results quite random as well in situations where the enemy side has a mixture of low SA value fighter bombers and tactical/medium bombers.

To complicate things, air availability refers to two separate things in the game:

-A percentage chance to determine when an air unit will be available again after using it for an air mission. This percentage can be found in the "Miscellaneous" section of the parameter data dialogue.

-Air availability in the Units menu that shows any changes in the units that are available for air missions during the scenario. I'm not sure if units that are not available for missions according to the air availability dialogue in the Units menu can fly interdiction missions. They are not withdrawn, they're just not available, and they recover fatigue/replacements normally.

I thought that the interdiction was based solely on the Air Interdiction value in the PDT file.

[Ricky B]

At one time, and I have no idea if it still applies. If you used all of your available air units, your opponent would not suffer any interdiction. It could have been fixed, maybe worth a test again.

But otherwise, I believe ComradeP has it, not diving into the air availability stuff.

[Ricky B]

Well, I did a fairly quick test, and although even at 100 for interdiction and large stacks, I didn't consistently see interdictions while moving in T mode, I did get attacks when all air units had been used and availability was set to 0 so they couldn't come back. So that is no longer an issue like it was.

Why I didn't see nearly as many attacks as expected is a different question, but probably just something undocumented under the hood - it could even be that, since it says it could be any air unit that is available in the scenario, that the recon units were being chosen and thus no impact, and no interdiction on map. May or may not give that a test, just to see.

Rick

[ComradeP]

I thought that the interdiction was based solely on the Air Interdiction value in the PDT file.

Not solely. The values in the PDT determine the percentage chance interdiction will occur and its effect in terms of how strong the air attack is, from my understanding compared to a regular air strike by that unit.

Unless I'm mistaken: T-mode units have 1/2 Defense value compared to their Deployed state, a 25% interdiction effect is not 1/4 the strength of a regular air strike when the unit is Deployed, but 1/2.

There is no base interdiction SA/HA value, an actual unit is picked.

If you happen to have lots of 6/6 fighter bombers, interdiction might be less effective than if a side has a few air units, but all are powerful medium bombers. If your air force consists of a single aircraft type, randomization of interdiction results will be very limited.

This is clearly visible in the Japan games for example, where you can clearly tell if movement was interdicted hit by a Napalm-equipped air unit or by a regular fighter bomber air unit.

Why I didn't see nearly as many attacks as expected is a different question, but probably just something undocumented under the hood

It wasn't Dawn or Dusk by any chance?

[Dog Soldier]

One issue that interdiction never dealt with is the phasing player's AAA.  If a unit is travel mode stacked with an AAA unit (travel mode for the AAA or deployed) that does not affect interdiction attacks.

If AAA is deployed historically to guard key roads for the phasing player, interdiction does not consider the range of the deployed AAA.

Thus AAA is only less than effective as it cannot protect moving units coming into the AAA unit's range (Zone of protections) though the AAA units will be fully able to protect against enemy air attacks scheduled by the opposing player to come in their turn.

Seems strange the game engine considered AAA to be "on a break" during the movement of troops in the player's own turn.

Dog Soldier

[Outlaw Josey Wales]

I always thought Ground Support air strikes were considered a totally different monster than interdiction. Think about it, GS were aircraft on a specific mission to support the ground troops and interdiction were targets of opportunity. Totally separate from ground support. I always felt there should be a revamped air model with an air map and squadrons to be assigned different missions and the zone to perform within range. More detail in what I wrote years ago.

[jonnymacbrown]

I always thought Ground Support air strikes were considered a totally different monster than interdiction.  Think about it, GS were aircraft on a specific mission to support the ground troops and interdiction were targets of opportunity.  Totally separate from ground support.  I always felt there should be a revamped air model with an air map and squadrons to be assigned different missions and the zone to perform within range.  More detail in what I wrote years ago.

This is especially bad in F 40. French AA is practically nonexistent which may be true historically but der Luftwaffe lost over 1500 aircraft in that 6-week campaign; but in the game they might lost 60 planes tops.

[Ricky B]

Mark's idea would capture some of that difference, but even then not all. The losses you note include transports dropping paras in the Low Countries, maybe gliders, etc, that aren't tracked in the game in any way, along with fighter squadrons that aren't normally in the mix unless carrying out ground attacks, etc.

But even more so, air power is too resilient compared to history - typically, a campaign would start with max plane availability and then it would drop over time due to losses, maintenance issues, etc. But in PzC you can be playing on the 10th day of a long campaign and still have the same plan count as at the start, which never would have been the case for campaigns launched after a recovery period.

On the other hand, having more realistic losses would skew the results due to the heavy weighting of air losses - 1 Stuka lost can be worth 4-5 Panthers, give or take.