Korsun 44 Gold airpower question

[Ricky B]

It may be worth clarifying how Low Visibility Air Effects (LVAE) work, as this is probably where the confusion lies.

If the LVAE % (as defined in the PDT) for the current visibility level is below 100%, then each available air unit is checked separately against this percentage to see if it is actually available for the current turn.

If for example the visibility was 3 and the corresponding PDT % was 75%, then each available unit has a 25% chance of being grounded for that turn. Because of the random nature of this process you may be lucky and all available units will be able to fly or unlucky and none will. More probably you will get something roughly in line with the LVAE percentage. So if it was 75% then you would expect on average that around 75% of your available units would be able to fly missions (assuming they had spotters). If they are not available due to LVAE, they do not appear in the dialog, even thought they are 'available'. 

If an otherwise available unit is grounded for the turn due to LVAE, it would still be available next turn but once again be subject to the applicable LVAE %. So I given unit, even though it is available, cannot always fly.

Clear as mud I hope. If more info is needed there is a 75% chance I will be unavailable.

John

John, I have to disagree on the calculation. At least in the distant past, and a current game of Kiev 4.0 matches my old test. If the vis limits are for 75 percent availability then exactly that percentage of total air units set as potentially available that turn, rounded, are available each turn, as long as that many air units are actually ready to fly. This calc ignores readiness to fly, it is simply based on total air units on that turn. Then however many air can fly due to vis are selected from those ready to fly. So air recently used can't be selected of course but it is otherwise random, ignoring prior turn selections.

I can pull more specific details from a test. But in Kiev, when vis is 3 hexes, I have always had 8 air units available I believe, and when it is 2 hexes, I have always had 4.

So I will set up a test when I get to my computer and share the results. But I  have never seen more than expected when using these rules, only lower if I use all air listed each turn and there are no longer any available. 

Rick

[Ricky B]

It may be worth clarifying how Low Visibility Air Effects (LVAE) work, as this is probably where the confusion lies.

If the LVAE % (as defined in the PDT) for the current visibility level is below 100%, then each available air unit is checked separately against this percentage to see if it is actually available for the current turn.

If for example the visibility was 3 and the corresponding PDT % was 75%, then each available unit has a 25% chance of being grounded for that turn. Because of the random nature of this process you may be lucky and all available units will be able to fly or unlucky and none will. More probably you will get something roughly in line with the LVAE percentage. So if it was 75% then you would expect on average that around 75% of your available units would be able to fly missions (assuming they had spotters). If they are not available due to LVAE, they do not appear in the dialog, even thought they are 'available'. 

If an otherwise available unit is grounded for the turn due to LVAE, it would still be available next turn but once again be subject to the applicable LVAE %. So I given unit, even though it is available, cannot always fly.

Clear as mud I hope. If more info is needed there is a 75% chance I will be unavailable.

John

John, I have to disagree on the calculation. At least in the distant past, and a current game of Kiev 4.0 matches my old test. If the vis limits are for 75 percent availability then exactly that percentage of total air units set as potentially available that turn, rounded, are available each turn, as long as that many air units are actually ready to fly. This calc ignores readiness to fly, it is simply based on total air units on that turn. Then however many air can fly due to vis are selected from those ready to fly. So air recently used can't be selected of course but it is otherwise random, ignoring prior turn selections.

I can pull more specific details from a test. But in Kiev, when vis is 3 hexes, I have always had 8 air units available I believe, and when it is 2 hexes, I have always had 4.

So I will set up a test when I get to my computer and share the results. But I  have never seen more than expected when using these rules, only lower if I use all air listed each turn and there are no longer any available. 

Rick

I setup a test scenario, using a custom PDT to eliminate variability of air availability except from usage. So no return of used air units, and no interception in case that impacted things. Overall setup was:

Air details

Vis=3 hexes
Air Limitation: 50%
Air Avail: 0
Air Intercept: 0

                                                             Max expected avail per turn
Soviet air: 20 units (16 day, 4 night)          10 day turns, 4 night
German air: 21 units                                10 day turns, 0 night

The attached spreadsheet has details of 3 tests I ran using the above air limitation of 50%, with 20 Soviet/21 German air units at the start.

Summary:

• If I never used any air units, the Soviets always had 10 air units during the day, and 4 at night, the Germans were always 10. This shows the air units actually available are 50% of the total air units in the scenario (I do believe that if the scenario does not have all of the air units actually available in that specific turn, as John mentioned, then the 50% is of the actual number of units in play that turn, as opposed to those that may have been withdrawn, permanently or temporarily). The number never varied from turn to turn, showing it is not applying a chance of availability per unit per turn, but rather simply allowing 50%, rounded down, to be available, if that many were ready to fly.
  
• If I used air units, it never impacted the number of air units available for use the next turn until those that were unused dropped below 10 during the day. Then whatever number were unused were available - and it was only those actually unused that were available. So for the Soviets, if I used all 10 air units the first turn, the remaining 6, and only 6 of course, were always available in turn 2. But if I used 6 or fewer, there were always 10 available in turn 2. The same for the Germans, but they always had at least 1 unit available in turn 3, since they started with 21 and could only use 10 per turn.
  
• If I didn't use any air units, the list of those I could use changed from turn to turn.
  

So although there is some chance involved, when the visibility reduces your air units available to say 25%, as a 2 hex vis in Kiev would do, there is no reason to not use most of your air units each turn as it will take at least 4 turns to use them all and by then those used in this first turn will start becoming available again, so you will maximize your air strikes this way. That is if you have targets worth the risk of losing a plane or two.

Alternatively, if you don't need your recon flights, but do need combat air, use your recon when they show up just so they aren't ready to fly for a short period. Otherwise, they could keep dominating your air units available and limit your combat flights.

However a final note, unless the engine changed. At one time, if you used all your available air units, your interdiction would no longer apply as there were no air units to apply. I don't know if that was a bug or desired, and it could have been fixed by now. It is an easy test - set interdiction to a very high value and give it a try in a test, to see what happens with all available air used  .

Rick

[Green]

Thanks, Rick.

So, to cut a long story short, you are saying that the LVAE % is applied to the total number of all air units to obtain a maximum possible number of air units that can fly missions that turn. The actual number of missions possible is the lesser of this LVAE determined maximum and the number of units actually available.

I have never tested it but am happy to take you word for it. It strikes me as odd that the percentage is applied in such a rigid way as real life is seldom so predictable. No doubt there is logic behind it.

John

[panther421]

Is there a good reason NOT to use air assets during your turn? If you don't use your air assets, will they perform interdiction on the enemy during his turn? Is that effect worth not using some of your air support during your turn?

[LordDeadwood]

Is there a good reason NOT to use air assets during your turn?  If you don't use your air assets, will they perform interdiction on the enemy during his turn?  Is that effect worth not using some of your air support during your turn?

The best reason NOT to use your air assets during a turn imo is to save them for future turns. The number of air units available for support does not affect your side's interdiction probability.