Atheory's Project: Operation Fischreiher (Stalingrad42)

[zovs66]

I noticed that two of the Italian motorized units are at 450 strength and a third is at 405 strength.  Is that by design or a typo?

Just missed your posted till now.

I am assuming it was by design originally and I left them as is. If there is any source materials for theses units please pass it along and I can make the adjustments.

[Dreamslayer_spb]

Stalingrad Front had separate tank battalions that had 'special' TOE.
Shtat #010/399:
21x T-34 and 21x T-60, 197 men total
HQ
T-34 Co (x2)
T-60 Co (x2)
Perhaps 10 tanks in each company and rest in HQ

There is other case. Combats for 62nd Army started not 23 July but earlier. All 5 Riffle divisions that was in first line was ordered to form vanguard groups and take positions much more to west. Firstly it was battallion size groups in some cases divided to companies and later these groups was reinforced to regiment size. Also each group was reinforced by tank battalions.
So, on 23 July each regiment of these divisions should have losses and fatigue. As well as their tank battalions.

[Dreamslayer_spb]

Soviet Rifle battalions (hard/soft/assault):
42 Gds Rifle Bn (4/4/9)
42 Rifle Bn (1/5/10)
Is it ok?

[zovs66]

Not exactly sure what your trying to communicate Dreamslayer_sqb, but I did not modify any of the hard/soft/assault values from the original scenario designer, nor did I adjust losses or fatigue from the original scenario designer. Moslty just the changes I listed in the scenario download page.

That is not to say your incorrect, or the original scenario designer was incorrect either, just what I modified for this awesome 400 turn scenario (thus far).

[Dreamslayer_spb]

I mean that there are many things that can improved. Like OOB, TOE or like this strange difference between values of Soviet battalions.

[Dreamslayer_spb]

Idk if you need this (I can't find a spoiler option, so as links):
62 A on 17 July 
Tank units that related to Tank Department (ABTU) of Stalingrad Front on 21 July - page 1 page 2

[Plain Ian]

Idk if you need this (I can't find a spoiler option, so as links):
62 A on 17 July 
Tank units that related to Tank Department (ABTU) of Stalingrad Front on 21 July - page 1 page 2

Nice original documents. I can see what you are saying but we would need to go back to the scenario designer Atheory to see what he says. Zovs66 has done a great job tidying up the graphics but its Atheory who did the original work. 

Looking at the Fischreiher scenario its pretty clear that Atheory started with the #0723 Don Bend scenario and extended the associated sub map and OOB. I don't think he made many changes to unit compositions apart from unit strengths. I've looked at his Drive_For_Stalingrad.oob and compared it with Stalingrad '42 Early_Alt_McNamara.oob.

So if the tank types are wrong in Atheory's mod then maybe this is where it comes from?

Here is your page 1. 



Heres a sample of some of these units from Stalingrad '42.



So yes tank types do not match up. 

Also since I spent a few days looking at the Fischreiher oob I spotted a few issues. The scenario has two 22nd Motorised Infantry Brigades on the map? One of them must be bogus?

I came across a source which agrees that the 652nd Separate tank battalion shown in page 1 above was present at Serfamovich so yes it should be added.

Plus there appears to be 3 duplicate Tank Brigades in the Fischreiher oob? (see below) Since Atheory attempted to extend the Don Bend scenario from 70 turns (July 23 - 29th) to 400 turns (July 23rd - 2nd Sep) I think that this has caused problems in tracking the Soviet OOB during this period. 

Armoured units from Drive_For_Stalingrad.oob


Anyway just as an interesting comparison to tank units at this time June 42, here are tank units from two 'similar' games. I thought it would be interesting to show them.

Moscow '42 has a June start so I would assume that unit compositions would have been similar to what was happening down south? Interestingly the Separate tank Bn which is also in the 500 designation series is shown as 30 x T34's? 



Here are some tank units from Kharkov '42 which is a bit earlier time wise as its from May 42. Interestingly the tank units are shown as 'mixed' because the represent T-34/T-60/T-70 units? 



Lastly my favourite game designer. His take on the May 42 battle. Kharkov '42 was among the earlier PzC series so I guess this is Indragnirs updating using more up to date sources. 



So if we want to show the Soviet tank units properly in July 42 do we show them as 'mixed' units and keep keep counter count low or do we show them as exact model types 'a la' Indragnir style and add all those extra counters which a lot of gamers hate?