AT guns

[Steel God]

Have to scratch that itch somehow and these days I’m just not reliable enough to PBEM the full Campaigns which I love so much. And polite company never!!!!!!

That’s just a cryin ass shame there.  Hope whatever is cramping you gaming pisses off and leaves you be

[Mr Grumpy]

..... but would be good if I could find an easier way to move them both forwards and backwards without having to get them devastated whilst in T mode. 

Well I have not played PzC for many years as I am a dedicated FWWC player now, so excuse me if I am talking rubbish, BUT I remember this issue being discussed at length in the past and I know from RickyB that it was discussed in person with JT at a TillerCon many years back, the result of that feedback to JT was this special rule as shown on page 35 of the user manual...........

"Special AT Gun Egress
Towed AT Guns are a defensive weapon and must be able to withdraw in the face of an enemy attack to be useful. Given default rules, many times a towed AT Gun unit which changes to Travel Mode to withdraw will be fired upon by enemy Opportunity Fire and this can often result in Disruption, preventing the unit from withdrawing. As a result, there is a special rule that says that a towed AT gun unit which changes to Travel Mode without having expended any movement points prior to that change will not trigger Opportunity Fire"

So unless I am misunderstanding this you can withdraw an AT gun without it being hit by opportunity fire as long as the AT gun has its full movement allowance (i.e. you don't fire once and then change to T mode).

As I say as I don't play PzC so this might not be the answer to Typhoon's prayers that I think it is!!  

Nah Darran, we all know the rule, the complaint is more centered on having to manage a whole slew of counters that are VERY fragile on the offense.  They put it in FWWC terms:  “why can’t these damn MGs be better on offense”.  

But seriously- “I don’t play PzC” — jeez man, I love Scotch but if you offer me a Martini I’m gonna drink it.

Yup I hear you, when I retire in a years time I will be relaunching my PzC career and no doubt we will meet on the battlefield !!!!! 

[typhoon]

Any ladies present please disregard this sexist comment but ladies and Panzer Camapigns are a difficult combination to keep happy

[Steel God]

Any ladies present please disregard this sexist comment but ladies and Panzer Camapigns are a difficult combination to keep happy

Ah, THAT old chestnut.  I have no answer for you.  I inadvertently married a woman 4 odd years my junior, and now that I've retired I realize what an absolute blessing that has been to my gaming time.  After I get her off to work in the mornings I am free to game as much as old eyes and bad back permit.

[typhoon]

Back to the AT guns a much safer subject. I do remember the new rule when it came in.
At the time it had been debated lots here at the blitz. Whilst it did allow the AT guns to escape in a lot of conditions it didn’t allow the AT guns to get back out of T mode. Hence the very next turn with visibility more than 1 hex the poor AT guns were just wiped out by the enemy artillery.

[Steel God]

Back to the AT guns a much safer subject. I do remember the new rule when it came in.
At the time it had been debated lots here at the blitz. Whilst it did allow the AT guns to escape in a lot of conditions it didn’t allow the AT guns to get back out of T mode. Hence the very next turn with visibility more than 1 hex the poor AT guns were just wiped out by the enemy artillery.

If the ATGs are motorized they usually have plenty of MPs to evacuate and maybe even set up again.  Horse drawn guns it’s tougher but that’s a reflection of antiquated OOB and I think fair.  Also setting up ATGs off road can leave them stranded as well so I try and avoid doing that.  If I deploy them off road I pretty much commit to dying at the breeches if it comes to that.

[Elxaime]

Aside from the few with meaningful combat values, ATGs perform their most useful function digging trenches. Unless you can get them into a bunker.

[Mr Grumpy]

Back to the AT guns a much safer subject. I do remember the new rule when it came in.
At the time it had been debated lots here at the blitz. Whilst it did allow the AT guns to escape in a lot of conditions it didn’t allow the AT guns to get back out of T mode. Hence the very next turn with visibility more than 1 hex the poor AT guns were just wiped out by the enemy artillery.

Well as Paul said you have to consider where you deploy the AT guns if you expect them to have a chance of escaping, on a road is an obvious example, not always easy I know through bitter experience, that new feature did help some but did it solve the issue.........no and I can understand why some players just don't bother using the weaker AT guns in the front line.

[Plain Ian]

Back to the AT guns a much safer subject. I do remember the new rule when it came in.
At the time it had been debated lots here at the blitz. Whilst it did allow the AT guns to escape in a lot of conditions it didn’t allow the AT guns to get back out of T mode. Hence the very next turn with visibility more than 1 hex the poor AT guns were just wiped out by the enemy artillery.

Well as Paul said you have to consider where you deploy the AT guns if you expect them to have a chance of escaping, on a road is an obvious example, not always easy I know through bitter experience, that new feature did help some but did it solve the issue.........no and I can understand why some players just don't bother using the weaker AT guns in the front line.

In Normandy 44 the best result that the small ATG units can get is a Fatigue. Now if they hard coded a higher chance of a Disruption in the engine with ATG units as a sort of shock factor then I guess we would all like to to try and 'hide' ATG units in the front line and use them like that rather than as Trench builders and speed bumps.

[Steel God]

Back to the AT guns a much safer subject. I do remember the new rule when it came in.
At the time it had been debated lots here at the blitz. Whilst it did allow the AT guns to escape in a lot of conditions it didn’t allow the AT guns to get back out of T mode. Hence the very next turn with visibility more than 1 hex the poor AT guns were just wiped out by the enemy artillery.

Well as Paul said you have to consider where you deploy the AT guns if you expect them to have a chance of escaping, on a road is an obvious example, not always easy I know through bitter experience, that new feature did help some but did it solve the issue.........no and I can understand why some players just don't bother using the weaker AT guns in the front line.

In Normandy 44 the best result that the small ATG units can get is a Fatigue. Now if they hard coded a higher chance of a Disruption in the engine with ATG units as a sort of shock factor then I guess we would all like to to try and 'hide' ATG units in the front line and use them like that rather than as Trench builders and speed bumps.

In fact ATGs do have a higher probability of causing disruption against vehicles hard coded into the system.  But more to the point they are far from worthless aside from that.  I am playing the N44 Scenario 30 currently; and we're still on Day 2 of the landing.  As the 4th ID is clawing it's way through the bocage I have taken every ATG in the division and stacked them across a double river line.  At 2 hex range, firing against a German heavy weapons unit in a BUNKER, they are routinely inflicting 4-6 casualties per shot.  Is it a wonder weapon?  No far from it, but it's not nothing, and as the only armor on that part of the field are captured French models they're hardly needed for their intended purpose at the moment.